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U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

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Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#71
post #48

Original version has charts: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/07/04/is-it...

Not available to read unless you agree to their tracking.

Interestingly the original has a bad interaction with my adblocker where the "x" to dismiss the popup dumps me back at the homepage rather than the article

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#72
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it all comes down to how Americans see and value money versus how the rest of the developed world values it. American culture puts 100% emphasis on how much money you make, and how you make it. More than health, or stability, or a well rounded life, American's are taught that money is the cure-all. And sure, when you are in the top 1/4 of income earners, the U.S. has quite a bit to offer. But what good is all…

> we as American's have been brainwashed to believe that we are all just 'down-on-our-luck millionaires' I'm not sure I'd say "brainwashed" -- this is a founding mythos of the United States. It's embedded in our most sacred documents -- the Declaration of Independence, the Preamble to the Constitution, etc. -- that the individual (in theory) reigns supreme and (in theory) has ultimate control over his/her life. It's…

That's fair. Brainwashed is probably an overly emotional label for what is actually a great idea that has deviated from it's original intent.

The American Spirit (for lack of a better term) is at odds with the economic and political structure of current-day America. We are led to believe (for good reasons) that we control our fate, but the infrastructure no longer supports it in a way that makes it available to every American.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same in France, I guess the US is structured differently but overall it's probably the same amount of years. I doubt they study more than 6 or 9 years after high school or otherwise it's a bit too long.

Post-high school schooling for a standard family doctor (one of the lowest paid doctors): 4 years bachelors + 4 years medical school + 3 years residency = 11 years post-high school education.

Seems to be between 9 and 12 years after high school for a GP in the UK:

https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/doctors/lengt...

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#74

The US is one of the best places in the world to be a business owner, that's why its economy is so much more dynamic than European economies. In order to create such an environment worker protections cannot be as robust as in Europe. This biased article of course ignores that fact. Many workers are much better off in the US than in Europe as well. They get to keep a greater portion of their income, their income goes…

If the USA is good for business, why has business formation been in decline for 30 years?

Understanding the 30 year Decline in Business Dynamism

https://ideas.repec.org/p/red/sed015/1333.html

"Recent empirical work has drawn attention to an unmistakable shift in U.S. firm dynamics since the late 1970s. Principally, the entry rate, measured as the share of new employer firms out of all employer firms, declined by nearly 40 percent from 1977 to 2007, even before the impact of the Great Recession. Remarkably, this steady decline occurred relatively uniformly within geographic areas and within relatively narrow industry aggregations. Taking this trend decline or startup deficit as given, Pugsley and Sahin (2014) show that both its direct effect on business formation and its indirect cumulative effect through a shift in the employer age distribution partly explain the emergence of slower employment recoveries with each business cycle."

Declining investment since the early 1960s:

http://www.smashcompany.com/business/the-decline-of-usa-inve...

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They get to keep a greater portion of their income I always see this come up during discussions about how the US compares to other developed countries. I think the mentality is slightly different in the EU. If you were raised knowing that your income was going to be taxed at 50% but you also got free healthcare, education, welfare assistance, etc., you’d probably learn to value those things over buying a bigger TV…

This is really what it comes down to. This is also where the basic argument to "tax the rich" comes from. For the price of a yacht, you could feed and house multiple families for a year in some cities.

I was once asked how much money I could sustainably spend every single day without explicitly trying to waste money. I settled on 10,000/day (I assume big ticket items like house/car would be absorbed by that effortlessly).

Then I was asked to do the math on how long it would take to spend 1 billion - the minimum amount to qualify as a billionaire - at that rate.

IIRC, ignoring interest and inflation, it worked out to 216 years.

Now billionaires dont have a bill sitting around in liquid cash, this is just a thought experiment to try a grasp how much a billion is, but it is an effective one. (Also cool as a party trick, as people tend to always pick a power of ten, so based on their answer you can whip out 2161 years or 21.6 years or whatever)

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#76
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, social mobility is higher in Europe. Also, americans can keep more of their income, if they skimp on health insurance and pensions savings. I don't think americans in general grasp how much higher quality the healthcare system is in Europe. Example: get scorned at by your GP doctor for seeing them for a bad cold. Get billed $20. Receive open heart surgery and triple by-pass. Get billed $20.

Social mobility doesn't really matter when everyone more or less has the same quality of life, as in Europe. That's what many don't understand. The Europeans have essentially nullified the value of social mobility in the first place. That is why their economies are more stagnant than that of the US.

Have you... been to Europe? This is in no way accurate. There are definitely classes of citizen here, from the working class all the way to billionaires.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#77

What I don't understand, and you may say that it's the intrenched powers keeping the status quo, is why the US picks such poor implementations of certain ideas. The article mentions low collective bargaining. Our model, as an American, is pretty much one union per vertical. There is the Teamsters. There are no unions that compete with the Teamsters. I believe that Germany has unions that fight each other for contract…

Much of this was determined by the so-called "Battle Of Detroit" of 1948. The USA had just defeated Nazi Germany and was looking to make sure that fascism would never return to Germany, so the USA encouraged the formation of strong labor unions, and supported the law that made unions automatic for large firms. The USA labor unions looked at that and wondered "If we are imposing this on Germany as a good thing, why can't we also get this in the USA?" In particular, there was the issue of who should have seats on the Board Of Directors. It would soon become normal for German labor unions to hold seats on the Board Of Directors at German firms. The USA labor unions wanted the same thing. What resulted was the longest and most bitter set of strikes in the history of the USA up till that time. Everyone understood the stakes -- the future shape of labor relations in the USA. The leadership of the major USA corporations dug in deep to resist the increasing power of the labor unions. The leadership of the major USA corporations were willing to offer higher wages -- essentially they were trying to bribe the workers with money instead of power, with the understanding that power is more important than money. Eventually, the corporations won. Although the workers got higher wages, they were denied control of the corporations. And at that time a so-called Red Scare got going in the USA, a hysteria over Communism, which turned into a dramatic episode of labor-union smashing. The most militant leaders of the labor unions were arrested or blacklisted. After that, what remained of the labor movement in the USA tended to be the least ideological and the most corrupt. The true-believers were chased away during the Red Scare. Those left behind were the ones who could be bought off with money. From that point forward, the labor movement in the USA was to shrink, first slowly, and then after 1970, much more quickly.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#78
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am sure that much of that take-home pay is offset by higher medical costs and the need for more retirement savings This is not true. Those same workers get most or all of their insurance costs covered by the company. Same goes for retirement with 401k plans, etc. > Not to mention the fact that the American work week is longer and vacation days are rarer. This is true.

This comment betrays an incredible misunderstanding or naivety of how medical insurance works in the US, and what/how it covers people. Also a completely bizarre use of 401(k)’s which are not available to most citizens and are highly volatile. Compared to the rest of the world the US spends more individually on healthcare & gets less. It’s average retirement savings are amongst the lowest in the developed world! Hand…

I'm reminded of this almost every time I read a novel set in a modern western European country. Protagonists can be poor and receive reliable legal and medical care that smashes my suspension of disbelief, yet the author (inevitably from said country) did not think twice about it, presumably because the idea isnt ridiculous on its face to them.

Anecdote, not data, but it has come up enough and this background detail isnt the author TRYING to persuade me, so it has been very effective at doing so nonetheless.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#79

What I don't understand, and you may say that it's the intrenched powers keeping the status quo, is why the US picks such poor implementations of certain ideas. The article mentions low collective bargaining. Our model, as an American, is pretty much one union per vertical. There is the Teamsters. There are no unions that compete with the Teamsters. I believe that Germany has unions that fight each other for contract…

This is only speculation, but initially when unions were just getting started, all that concentration of power was probably required to wrest any control away from the company.

Then by the time the scales began to tip, the unions suddenly had all the power in the world to prevent other competing unions coming in.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#80
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, social mobility is higher in Europe. Also, americans can keep more of their income, if they skimp on health insurance and pensions savings. I don't think americans in general grasp how much higher quality the healthcare system is in Europe. Example: get scorned at by your GP doctor for seeing them for a bad cold. Get billed $20. Receive open heart surgery and triple by-pass. Get billed $20.

Social mobility doesn't really matter when everyone more or less has the same quality of life, as in Europe. That's what many don't understand. The Europeans have essentially nullified the value of social mobility in the first place. That is why their economies are more stagnant than that of the US.

Honest question: what do you think social mobility is? When studies say EU has higher social mobility, what do think they are actually highlighting?
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