U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#11

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:03 PM UTC

sol_remmy wrote: post #7

ceejayoz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They get to keep a greater portion of their income If only that greater portion wasn't immediately being eaten up by rapidly rising healthcare, college, etc. costs. Between premiums, copays, and non-covered stuff like compounded medications and dental, I spent $33k last year for a family of four on healthcare. The college I went to - $36k in 2001 - is now $60k/year. I'll take the higher taxes...

Notice how every sector of the economy that the government is highly involved with (health care, education, real estate) keeps increasing its costs? Your inflated health care bills helped pay for the 280k average salary of physicians (source: https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2018-compensation-overvie... ), which is over 2x as high as Western european doctors' salary. You can thank the aggressive occupational licens…

Europe spends half what we do on healthcare per-capita (and the gap is widening, as their costs historically don't grow as quickly - https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-...).

Just because our government does a shitty half-assed job of it doesn't mean all governments have to.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#12

Post by INTPenis » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:03 PM UTC

I'm glad this is being addressed but I don't feel qualified to add anything of substance to it.

As many other techies I frequent message boards on reddit and other sites. A majority of users are from the US and many posts are written from a US-centric point of view.

What I've observed on those message boards regarding workers rights and health has made me deeply concerned about US workers. And that's only in the tech field. I can't even imagine how it compares to other industrial fields.

I'm not qualified to debate this but I am convinced that I would never want to work in the united states.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#13

Post by finaliteration » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:03 PM UTC

Reactionary_ wrote: post #2

The US is one of the best places in the world to be a business owner, that's why its economy is so much more dynamic than European economies. In order to create such an environment worker protections cannot be as robust as in Europe. This biased article of course ignores that fact. Many workers are much better off in the US than in Europe as well. They get to keep a greater portion of their income, their income goes…

> They get to keep a greater portion of their income

I always see this come up during discussions about how the US compares to other developed countries. I think the mentality is slightly different in the EU. If you were raised knowing that your income was going to be taxed at 50% but you also got free healthcare, education, welfare assistance, etc., you’d probably learn to value those things over buying a bigger TV or whatever. The only reason we complain about how they have less disposable income is due to the fact that we spend so much of ours on healthcare and education so it looks like a scarce resource that we need to hoard.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#14

Post by djcrayon » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:04 PM UTC

Reactionary_ wrote: post #2

The US is one of the best places in the world to be a business owner, that's why its economy is so much more dynamic than European economies. In order to create such an environment worker protections cannot be as robust as in Europe. This biased article of course ignores that fact. Many workers are much better off in the US than in Europe as well. They get to keep a greater portion of their income, their income goes…

I would love a citation on this.

Anecdotally, I have lived in both the United States and United Kingdom. My tax rate was similar and in the UK I largely paid less for rent, healthcare and public transportation while paying more for staples like food. All in all costs were largely equaled out, although in the UK I enjoyed more vacation and worker protections I did not have as a US employee.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#15

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:05 PM UTC

Reactionary_ wrote: post #2

The US is one of the best places in the world to be a business owner, that's why its economy is so much more dynamic than European economies. In order to create such an environment worker protections cannot be as robust as in Europe. This biased article of course ignores that fact. Many workers are much better off in the US than in Europe as well. They get to keep a greater portion of their income, their income goes…

That greater agility comes at a cost of stability. It's better for those with the means to not worry about the instability - those who are better able or willing to gamble upon an unsure thing, but it punishes those less risk adverse, or less capable of taking advantage of the system (the poor, those with dependents or debt).

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#16

Post by jacobush » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:05 PM UTC

sol_remmy wrote: post #7

ceejayoz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They get to keep a greater portion of their income If only that greater portion wasn't immediately being eaten up by rapidly rising healthcare, college, etc. costs. Between premiums, copays, and non-covered stuff like compounded medications and dental, I spent $33k last year for a family of four on healthcare. The college I went to - $36k in 2001 - is now $60k/year. I'll take the higher taxes...

Notice how every sector of the economy that the government is highly involved with (health care, education, real estate) keeps increasing its costs? Your inflated health care bills helped pay for the 280k average salary of physicians (source: https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2018-compensation-overvie... ), which is over 2x as high as Western european doctors' salary. You can thank the aggressive occupational licens…

It's highly involved, but maybe not involved in the right way... the relationship looks rather incestous.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#17

Post by zepto » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:06 PM UTC

sol_remmy wrote: post #7

ceejayoz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They get to keep a greater portion of their income If only that greater portion wasn't immediately being eaten up by rapidly rising healthcare, college, etc. costs. Between premiums, copays, and non-covered stuff like compounded medications and dental, I spent $33k last year for a family of four on healthcare. The college I went to - $36k in 2001 - is now $60k/year. I'll take the higher taxes...

Notice how every sector of the economy that the government is highly involved with (health care, education, real estate) keeps increasing its costs? Your inflated health care bills helped pay for the 280k average salary of physicians (source: https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2018-compensation-overvie... ), which is over 2x as high as Western european doctors' salary. You can thank the aggressive occupational licens…

And yet health care costs are lower in countries where the government runs healthcare.

Our system of government involvement, where it’s neither a free market, nor a single payer system, is indeed an example of the worst way government can be involved.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#18

Post by gota » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:06 PM UTC

Well, virtually nobody browsing HN can say they share the pains of the workers of the US that 'suffer when compared with the rest of the world'.

Sure, there are many low-income residents, high inequality, high turnover, low unemployment with low upward job mobility, etc. All those things are true for the 'disadvantaged', and engineers, technologists, computer scientists etc. are _not_ part of the population that makes less than the median income.

So, yeah, a more appropriate title would be 'vanishing lower middle class in the US is increasingly facing the same problems as the lower class', which some may argue is identical to 'is becoming poor' (but not technically true)

Anyway, at a _personal_ level, nobody here will come to the conclusion they better leave to the EU because they'd be better there

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#19

Post by toomanybeersies » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:08 PM UTC

Reactionary_ wrote: post #2

The US is one of the best places in the world to be a business owner, that's why its economy is so much more dynamic than European economies. In order to create such an environment worker protections cannot be as robust as in Europe. This biased article of course ignores that fact. Many workers are much better off in the US than in Europe as well. They get to keep a greater portion of their income, their income goes…

I live in Australia. I pay about as much tax as someone living in California, but with that I also get healthcare.

I also get 11 days of public holidays, 20 days of normal leave, and 10 days of sick leave.

I'm pretty happy with what I've got, to be honest.

Re: U.S. employment conditions compare poorly to the rest of the developed world

#20

Post by herbst » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:09 PM UTC

Reactionary_ wrote: post #2

The US is one of the best places in the world to be a business owner, that's why its economy is so much more dynamic than European economies. In order to create such an environment worker protections cannot be as robust as in Europe. This biased article of course ignores that fact. Many workers are much better off in the US than in Europe as well. They get to keep a greater portion of their income, their income goes…

This is highly generalized. Check the numbers from Switzerland compared to any high income city in the US the take away and living standard almost always seems a lot better in switzerland.

Generally we talk about less taxes, cheaper health care and a higher or similar income.