Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall • Hacker News Board

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#71

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 9:47 AM UTC

TangoTrotFox wrote: post #24

throwaway0255 wrote: post #19

I used to know someone who worked for one of the companies behind those "We'll Fix Your Credit Score, Call Us" and "We'll Buy Your House, Call Us" signs on the side of street intersections (among other things), and I asked her to explain to me how those signs could possibly make any money. The way she explained it was (mostly her words), way less than 1% of people are dumb enough to dial the number, but of the people…

I sometimes wonder if this isn't a fairly common practice in numerous industries. For instance some time back I was watching a show on US cable television. Vikings on the History Channel, in particular. Aside from the completely obnoxious icons and labeling everywhere, about 5 minutes into the show advertisement pops up literally in the middle of the screen consuming about 25% of the screen space. And that was enough…

[deleted]

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#72

Post by raverbashing » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 9:48 AM UTC

drawkbox wrote: post #56

mort96 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you even need the SSN?

As mentioned by others, sweepstakes sponsors are required to report prizes awarded to US residents to the IRS if the value is $600 or more. For tax purposes some also choose report prizes of lower values especially if they are giving away lots of them that equal substantial value businesses expense out. I thought it was only the 15k prizes above gift tax but it was actually any prize for tax tracking. Lots of people…

Well this is solved by asking the SSN to redeem the prize, but not before the draw.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#73

Post by hemmert » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 9:52 AM UTC

I once worked as a freelance graphic designer for a company that wanted to give away a car as the first prize in a raffle. All promo material needed to have huge amounts of fineprint, including that the winner - in order to get the car - would have to sign a contract, forcing him to leave the company's logo stickers on the car for two years, or pay a penalty of about 20% of the car's value.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#74

Post by jonhendry18 » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 9:57 AM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #72

drawkbox wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As mentioned by others, sweepstakes sponsors are required to report prizes awarded to US residents to the IRS if the value is $600 or more. For tax purposes some also choose report prizes of lower values especially if they are giving away lots of them that equal substantial value businesses expense out. I thought it was only the 15k prizes above gift tax but it was actually any prize for tax tracking. Lots of people…

Well this is solved by asking the SSN to redeem the prize, but not before the draw.

The solution is probably a two-part form where the winner can fill in their SSN and seal it in an envelope, then the contest operator would take that envelope and enclose it with the operator's part of the form, and mail it.

That way the contest operator need not ever see the winner's SSN.

The amusing thing is the apparent widespread assumption that contest operators are shady as f.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#75

Post by snowwolf » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 10:00 AM UTC

throwaway0255 wrote: post #19

I used to know someone who worked for one of the companies behind those "We'll Fix Your Credit Score, Call Us" and "We'll Buy Your House, Call Us" signs on the side of street intersections (among other things), and I asked her to explain to me how those signs could possibly make any money. The way she explained it was (mostly her words), way less than 1% of people are dumb enough to dial the number, but of the people…

Microsoft Research wrote a paper about this - basically it helps filter out the false positives.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/... [PDF]

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#76

Post by quickthrower2 » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 10:01 AM UTC

invalidusernam3 wrote: post #70

I remember a few years back walking on the beach with my dad and some similar time share scam people asked us if we wanted to enter a competition. We were handed two scratch cards with various prizes; cash, a holiday or the grand prize of a car. Obviously all the scratch cards were winners for the holiday. My dad scratched his card and said "Oh great, I won the car!" The scam guys eyes opened wide and he had a confus…

What the scam? "Free flight" if you buy the timeshare or something?

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#77

Post by drawkbox » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 10:05 AM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #72

drawkbox wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As mentioned by others, sweepstakes sponsors are required to report prizes awarded to US residents to the IRS if the value is $600 or more. For tax purposes some also choose report prizes of lower values especially if they are giving away lots of them that equal substantial value businesses expense out. I thought it was only the 15k prizes above gift tax but it was actually any prize for tax tracking. Lots of people…

Well this is solved by asking the SSN to redeem the prize, but not before the draw.

As mentioned, this is only asked of winners to collect their prize, after the draw.

If they won they must be contacted to verify and get info to send them the prize.

Since it is a transfer of value, the SSN has to be known for the 1099 form that is required by the IRS after $600 in value being transferred. It is also required if the sponsor gives it as a gift, pays the tax portion and for the sponsor to expense it out on the business' taxes.

Same thing happens on gameshows or any giveaway.

It is probably easier to trust after you were on a physical gameshow though, if you just won a prize online it seemed scammy to many eventhough we took all precautions to make it legit including no opt-in when they entered the email or phone. Only their email/phone was required to enter after they won the minigame or played the ticket. Everything else was asked later if they won the prize.

It is harder than you'd think to give away the actual prize to people that won it due to all the scams out there taking the fun out of things.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#78

Post by krrrh » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 10:07 AM UTC

TangoTrotFox wrote: post #24

throwaway0255 wrote: post #19

I used to know someone who worked for one of the companies behind those "We'll Fix Your Credit Score, Call Us" and "We'll Buy Your House, Call Us" signs on the side of street intersections (among other things), and I asked her to explain to me how those signs could possibly make any money. The way she explained it was (mostly her words), way less than 1% of people are dumb enough to dial the number, but of the people…

I sometimes wonder if this isn't a fairly common practice in numerous industries. For instance some time back I was watching a show on US cable television. Vikings on the History Channel, in particular. Aside from the completely obnoxious icons and labeling everywhere, about 5 minutes into the show advertisement pops up literally in the middle of the screen consuming about 25% of the screen space. And that was enough…

I wonder how much we undervalue audience segmentation when analyzing social network profitability. Twitter and reddit’s perpetual issues making money could be that they index too highly for cynical people who trust no one, while Facebook does gangbusters indexing highly for people desperate to make a connection.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#79

Post by asfdsfggtfd » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 10:08 AM UTC

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #53

drawkbox wrote: post #47

On the flipside, I worked on promotions game systems in the brand promotions space with instant win and giveaways after the user played a game. If they won we had to contact them to verify and get info to send them the prize. When someone won the prize we had to get the social security number of the person that won for gift tracking as many were over 15k, their contact info and location to send the prize, you'd be su…

As an individual authenticating callers is difficult. I recently had someone claiming to be from the ATO (Australian Taxation Office) call and ask me to identify myself. Not surprising, my tax filing is overdue. I advised them as a security policy I do not give out PII to unauthenticated callers, asked for a reference number and a return phone number. The number I was given is not listed on the ATO website so I did n…

I think just call back on one of their listed numbers and explain.

Re: Why nobody ever wins the car at the mall

#80

Post by afpx » Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 10:09 AM UTC

starpilot wrote: post #23

Animats wrote: post #9

Since this is a California on-site thing, California sweepstakes law applies.[1] - "The exact nature and approximate value of the prizes must be disclosed clearly and conspicuously when they are offered." - "The law prohibits the company from misrepresenting the odds of receiving any item offered." - Prohibited: "Failing to award and distribute all prizes of the value and type represented." Online complaint form here…

Why haven't they all been shutdown if they are clearly illegal? Also, I've seen these across the country.

It is incredibly frustrating that police don’t seem to actively enforce the majority of the laws. My local police seem anemic. There sure are a lot of them, though. Patrol cars are always visible. And, (right-wing) politicians seem to always want to be hiring more and upgrading their gear. For instance, recently they asked for a $30M shooting range. But, if the local newspapers are a good record, it seems that all they seem to do is give out speeding tickets, enforce drug laws, and and bust minorities and immigrants (for whatever). I’m not being facetious.

Anyone in the US have tips on how to get involved to help oversee and direct them? I’m pretty naive and don’t have much time, but I do have motivation, at least. I have tried calling them in the past to get a better understanding of what they do, but it was difficult to find the right person to talk to. I’ve considered doing independent research and reporting (via FOIA), but I also fear repercussions.