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Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

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Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#71

Post by monktastic1 »

sorokod wrote: post #19
wodenokoto wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I expect to be in a similar vain is "Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion". While I enjoyed reading it and it helped me make sense of a lot of things related to meditation, mindfulness and spirituality in general, I can't say I felt every other sentence was highlight worthy. The chapter on spiritual frauds was however very enloghtening.

Could you briefly explain what spirituality without religion is? How is it different from psychology?

I'd like to take a stab.

We all carry around a default metaphysics -- a deep belief structure about the nature of reality. It is possible to transcend these beliefs in a way that allows you to grok (not just understand) that they're not supported in the way we normally assume. That transcendence is often accompanied by an overwhelming gratitude, joy, awe, and wonder that are normally inaccessible.

Of course, our belief structures almost always come rushing right back, and so we interpret the experience in terms of our metaphysics ("oh, it was just brain chemicals"), but part of us understands the sense in which this is just a story.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#72

Post by amthewiz »

MichaelGG wrote: post #33
sgentle wrote: post #16

This paper is a pretty comprehensive take on Vipassana, so in case anyone's looking for something a bit more general, I'd like to offer a complementary summary based on my own experiences. Vipassana is a 10-day silent meditation retreat. Silent in this case really means distraction-free, entertainment-free, or stimulation-free. Think of it as the diametric opposite of social news. No noise, no conversation, no instan…

Excellent review, thank you. You capture the vividness of it very well. I will add a disclaimer, if you are talking about Goekna / Dhamma.org retreats. They are absolutely not just about technique or dogma-free, despite their marketing. They are overtly religious and the entire retreat is couched in hand-wavy woo. The retreat itself was amazing. I went to one in Quebec. Excellent facilities, crystal clear skies (it w…

> The moment I first sat. . . well, here is the type of sound they pump in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqEWTlaweaM

It would be torture if I were forced to listen to this. Apart from all the religious baggage involved, the vocals are incredibly pitchy. For the minute I tried listening to this, I twitched at each phrase. This won't be calming for the soul at all.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#73

Post by bstrom »

sgentle wrote: post #16

This paper is a pretty comprehensive take on Vipassana, so in case anyone's looking for something a bit more general, I'd like to offer a complementary summary based on my own experiences. Vipassana is a 10-day silent meditation retreat. Silent in this case really means distraction-free, entertainment-free, or stimulation-free. Think of it as the diametric opposite of social news. No noise, no conversation, no instan…

Not to be pedantic, but a vipassana retreat is a 10-day (though not always strictly 10) retreat. Vipassana is not itself a retreat but a method for seeing the nature of reality.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#74

Post by cuspycode »

sorokod wrote: post #56
fsloth wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original question, to which I answered, was, that what does non-religious spirituality mean? I described what a spiritual experience felt like to me. So, I suppose the key here is the personal experience. I'm sure there are a lot of ways people can have deep spiritual experiences without them interpreting it as communicating with divine forces.

I didn't mean to try to belittle you experience in any way. The one thing I am tying to validate / invalidate is weather "spiritual" as used by non religious people, is mere hacking of our delicate physical and chemical machinery.

What makes "mere hacking" different from true enlightenment?

Is it just the perspective of the one who has the experience? As Tim Leary said: The caterpillar cannot understand the butterfly.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#75

Post by nabla9 »

skosch wrote: post #25
nabla9 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has practiced over 19 years very intensively, my opinion is that pop science and culture overplays the effects of moderate meditation (say 30 min per day) in a short term and mostly misunderstand the effects of long term meditation. The starting assumption of a secular meditator (like me) usually is that we want to develop some abilities. You are you, just better. If you meditate a lot, or very long ti…

> Eventually you are going towards direction where you don't want to go ... this is the end of the road for many people. It sounds like you're saying that moderate meditation is overrated, and more intense meditation is outright detrimental in the long term. That is surprising to me. Is this an inevitability? Did you experience this, and how did you push through it?

Not detrimental. Good medicine can taste bad when it works. Especially if that was not your expectation.

Short therm meditation experiences are mostly overrated. I think even little a day regularly 20-30 minutes has good effects if you make it a habit that you don't give up.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#77

Post by sorokod »

cuspycode wrote: post #74
sorokod wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't mean to try to belittle you experience in any way. The one thing I am tying to validate / invalidate is weather "spiritual" as used by non religious people, is mere hacking of our delicate physical and chemical machinery.

What makes "mere hacking" different from true enlightenment? Is it just the perspective of the one who has the experience? As Tim Leary said: The caterpillar cannot understand the butterfly.

One is rational and comprehensible, the other one isn't. At least that is how I read "spiritual" and "enlightenment"

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#78

Post by pergadad »

MichaelGG wrote: post #33
sgentle wrote: post #16

This paper is a pretty comprehensive take on Vipassana, so in case anyone's looking for something a bit more general, I'd like to offer a complementary summary based on my own experiences. Vipassana is a 10-day silent meditation retreat. Silent in this case really means distraction-free, entertainment-free, or stimulation-free. Think of it as the diametric opposite of social news. No noise, no conversation, no instan…

Excellent review, thank you. You capture the vividness of it very well. I will add a disclaimer, if you are talking about Goekna / Dhamma.org retreats. They are absolutely not just about technique or dogma-free, despite their marketing. They are overtly religious and the entire retreat is couched in hand-wavy woo. The retreat itself was amazing. I went to one in Quebec. Excellent facilities, crystal clear skies (it w…

I did a dhamma retreat in India in 2008. I did not notice any of the things you mentioned. I don't know whether they changed any of the instructions in the meantime, but for me it was an immensely insightful, at times painful and scary experience. Learning about Buddhist philosophy was a side bonus (although I don't remember much of it), which I always understood as imparting lessons and enriching my own mental models (why did they reach conclusion x or theory y?) but not necessarily literally true. There was no nlchsnzing back then (except for saying "Sadu Sadu" to express to oneself knes whic's compassion for all licing creatures. Maybe local versions are different despite the recordings?

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#79

Post by dubin »

deepaks4077 wrote: post #35

I would highly recommend The Mind Illuminated as a solid instruction manual for beginners who want to start meditating at home. http://a.co/61TjGpW

I second this and will add a recommendation for Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha, which is legally and freely available here http://integrateddaniel.info/book/ It really has the flavor of "meditation for hackers," whereas The Mind Illuminated's flavor seems more "meditation for engineers."

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#80

Post by Legogris »

MichaelGG wrote: post #60
curun1r wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important distinction between the Goenka retreats and other dogmatic religious organizations is the instructions to only accept what you find palatable...you're free to pick and choose what you find valuable and what you can validate through personal experience and ignore the rest. If you'll remember the story of the kheer and the cardamom seeds, it's meant to encourage you to be as skeptical as you feel you need…

>you're free to pick and choose what you find valuable This is what they say, and sure, they cannot force you. But if you do this, they criticize and condescend, telling you you're like a child not eating all his food and that when you grow up you'll find everything they say is correct. And Goenka is very clear that the goal of Vipassana is improving reincarnation. There is one point where they say something, maybe l…

> But if you do this, they criticize and condescend, telling you you're like a child not eating all his food and that when you grow up you'll find everything they say is correct.

I am sure this depends a lot from center to center and the one I went to (Sweden, beautiful location) was not like that at all.

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