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Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

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Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#41

Post by nisa »

MichaelGG wrote: post #33
sgentle wrote: post #16

This paper is a pretty comprehensive take on Vipassana, so in case anyone's looking for something a bit more general, I'd like to offer a complementary summary based on my own experiences. Vipassana is a 10-day silent meditation retreat. Silent in this case really means distraction-free, entertainment-free, or stimulation-free. Think of it as the diametric opposite of social news. No noise, no conversation, no instan…

Excellent review, thank you. You capture the vividness of it very well. I will add a disclaimer, if you are talking about Goekna / Dhamma.org retreats. They are absolutely not just about technique or dogma-free, despite their marketing. They are overtly religious and the entire retreat is couched in hand-wavy woo. The retreat itself was amazing. I went to one in Quebec. Excellent facilities, crystal clear skies (it w…

Thank you. You are spot on with the quackery! This matches my experiences in participating in a course in Germany.

> Maybe try hanging out with people praising homeopathy and not saying a single negative word as preparation for the kinds of things you're going to feel?

Honestly, the day when silence is broken was hard to grok. The vast majority of participants were deep into esoteric and quackery themes and had a religious admiration for the teachings. Critical discussion is not exactly forbidden but usally swept away.

It's also powerful, I remember speaking that day to someone more sceptical than me at the time and trying to calm him down. In retrospective he was right and I turned into an advertising machine the following weeks - I realized that only quite a while later.

The topics and language used in the course also had a lot of pseudo-scientific topics (even quoting engineers) that are hard to dismantle on first sight.

That beeing said, it's still worth the experience and it was comfortable but be ready to get exposed to all kinds of quack.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#42

Post by lemonberry »

skosch wrote: post #25
nabla9 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has practiced over 19 years very intensively, my opinion is that pop science and culture overplays the effects of moderate meditation (say 30 min per day) in a short term and mostly misunderstand the effects of long term meditation. The starting assumption of a secular meditator (like me) usually is that we want to develop some abilities. You are you, just better. If you meditate a lot, or very long ti…

> Eventually you are going towards direction where you don't want to go ... this is the end of the road for many people. It sounds like you're saying that moderate meditation is overrated, and more intense meditation is outright detrimental in the long term. That is surprising to me. Is this an inevitability? Did you experience this, and how did you push through it?

A quick Google search turned this up. May be helpful: https://www.thoughtco.com/buddhist-meditation-and-the-dark-n...

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#43

Post by eludwig »

skosch wrote: post #25
nabla9 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has practiced over 19 years very intensively, my opinion is that pop science and culture overplays the effects of moderate meditation (say 30 min per day) in a short term and mostly misunderstand the effects of long term meditation. The starting assumption of a secular meditator (like me) usually is that we want to develop some abilities. You are you, just better. If you meditate a lot, or very long ti…

> Eventually you are going towards direction where you don't want to go ... this is the end of the road for many people. It sounds like you're saying that moderate meditation is overrated, and more intense meditation is outright detrimental in the long term. That is surprising to me. Is this an inevitability? Did you experience this, and how did you push through it?

>>Did you experience this, and how did you push through it?

Apologies for chiming in, but the simple answer is that "you" can't. That is, if you believe that there is a "you" that can push past this barrier, then you will fail. It's an impossible task. Where you go after that realization is up to "you." ;)

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#44

Post by MichaelGG »

wodenokoto wrote: post #15
sampl wrote: post #12

I highly recommend the book Mindfulness in Plain English if you're interested in meditation. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XF1LKW/ It strips away a lot of the "woo woo" kooky stuff and clearly explains what meditation really "is". I just finished re-reading it, and must have highlighted every other sentence.

What I expect to be in a similar vain is "Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion". While I enjoyed reading it and it helped me make sense of a lot of things related to meditation, mindfulness and spirituality in general, I can't say I felt every other sentence was highlight worthy. The chapter on spiritual frauds was however very enloghtening.

I highly recommend the guided meditation that goes along with that book, Waking Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OboD7JrT0NE

It has helped me attain the deepest level of meditative state, where I am almost aware of my consciousness as a separate process from the constant sensory input. Becoming an observer, empty-head.

On another level, I've found it very settling in times of emotional turmoil.

I did have a near panic attack from the book when he makes somewhat of a case that both hemispheres of our brains might be independently conscious, with one permanently silenced as control of the body is held by the active one that controls our body. A prisoner in someone else's body, literally, with no way to interact with the world. It is pure physiological horror. But alas I cannot do anything about (other than try to talk to that other entity and see if it can trigger some sort of response?) so no use getting worked up? The world is full of day-to-day cruelty and it's not my fault.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#45

Post by deepaks4077 »

arglebarnacle wrote: post #39
deepaks4077 wrote: post #35

I would highly recommend The Mind Illuminated as a solid instruction manual for beginners who want to start meditating at home. http://a.co/61TjGpW

I'd second this. It really is a phenomenal book. For me, the most interesting thing about it is it would probably be a terrible meditation guide for a lot of people I know. But if you have the approach/learning style that's typical of folks on hacker news, it's the best book there is--because of its emphasis on clearly elucidated concepts, consistent use of language and terms, ample neuroscience-oriented background,…

For me, its key feature was that I found it more actionable than other sources that I'd found online. I prefer it to 'Mindfulness in Plain English'. However, to be fair, I haven't read the entire text, so I don't think that I can make a fair comparison.

Edit: The author of the book is Culadasa (Dr. John Yates, PhD), whose profile mentions that he was a neuroscience professor at one point in his life. I haven't verified this.

His profile: http://culadasa.com/about/

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#46

Post by tokyodude »

sgentle wrote: post #16

This paper is a pretty comprehensive take on Vipassana, so in case anyone's looking for something a bit more general, I'd like to offer a complementary summary based on my own experiences. Vipassana is a 10-day silent meditation retreat. Silent in this case really means distraction-free, entertainment-free, or stimulation-free. Think of it as the diametric opposite of social news. No noise, no conversation, no instan…

what would you consider lasting impacts of your experience?

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#47

Post by curun1r »

MichaelGG wrote: post #33
sgentle wrote: post #16

This paper is a pretty comprehensive take on Vipassana, so in case anyone's looking for something a bit more general, I'd like to offer a complementary summary based on my own experiences. Vipassana is a 10-day silent meditation retreat. Silent in this case really means distraction-free, entertainment-free, or stimulation-free. Think of it as the diametric opposite of social news. No noise, no conversation, no instan…

Excellent review, thank you. You capture the vividness of it very well. I will add a disclaimer, if you are talking about Goekna / Dhamma.org retreats. They are absolutely not just about technique or dogma-free, despite their marketing. They are overtly religious and the entire retreat is couched in hand-wavy woo. The retreat itself was amazing. I went to one in Quebec. Excellent facilities, crystal clear skies (it w…

The important distinction between the Goenka retreats and other dogmatic religious organizations is the instructions to only accept what you find palatable...you're free to pick and choose what you find valuable and what you can validate through personal experience and ignore the rest. If you'll remember the story of the kheer and the cardamom seeds, it's meant to encourage you to be as skeptical as you feel you need to be to get value out of the retreat.

Also, your comment on the sleepless nights makes me realize that you misunderstood the non-meditation periods in the same way that I misunderstood them during my first 10-day. I thought if I wasn't meditating, I was 'off' and mostly just passing time until the next session. But what I realized in my second 10-day was that there should be no down time. If you're not sitting and meditating, you should be walking and meditating, eating and meditating or showering and meditating or whatever and meditating. If you're lying in bed and can't fall asleep, you meditate. And what I found was that it didn't matter how much I actually slept because lying prone and meditating was as restful as sleep. If you ever try it again, try doing it without the notion of any down time...meditate through all of your actions as well as the prescribed meditation periods.

But I agree that the anti-science (and pseudo-scientific) parts were unfortunate. I served a 10-day after having attended twice, and was somewhat upset to see that they only made available traditional Chinese medicines to students and wouldn't even allow basic Western medicine (aspirin, immodium, etc). At one point, we had an elderly man who ran out of his high blood pressure medication. During a meditation session, his pulse rate spiked (~190 bpm) and he started freaking out. After following the teacher's advice and trying a traditional Chinese remedy (which, of course, did nothing), I finally suggested something with an actual basis in science (dipping his face in cold water to activate the mammalian dive reflex). That got the situation under control until an ambulance could arrive.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#48

Post by fsloth »

sorokod wrote: post #36
fsloth wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP but as an atheist for me spiritualism was made concrete when after a meditation session I intuitively knew and felt that myself and the world were the same. I watched at some familiar trees through my windows and felt I and them were the same and actually existed . This sensation brought me great joy and calmness. And then it passed, I was myself again, and the world was again separate from me. This was some t…

Well, people used to interpret experiences with hallucinogenic substances as religious/spiritual (some still do). Would you say that your own experience fundamentally differs? Obviously you didn't ingest chemicals but other than that, is the end result substantially different?

The original question, to which I answered, was, that what does non-religious spirituality mean? I described what a spiritual experience felt like to me.

So, I suppose the key here is the personal experience.

I'm sure there are a lot of ways people can have deep spiritual experiences without them interpreting it as communicating with divine forces.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#49

Post by collyw »

sorokod wrote: post #19
wodenokoto wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I expect to be in a similar vain is "Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion". While I enjoyed reading it and it helped me make sense of a lot of things related to meditation, mindfulness and spirituality in general, I can't say I felt every other sentence was highlight worthy. The chapter on spiritual frauds was however very enloghtening.

Could you briefly explain what spirituality without religion is? How is it different from psychology?

I would say its an inquiry into the nature of your conscious experience, using meditation. Most meditation seems tied up with religion to greater or lesses extents. Sam Harris tries to do away with that.

Some people have already posted his insight meditation which is worth trying. (Maybe try a bit of more basic breathing meditation first so you realize how distracted you are getting with your thoughts before trying - you will likely get a lot more out of it if you can keep your mind from jumping around).

I would say the difference with psychology is that psychology is based on external observations and predictions, while "spirituality" is your own internal experience. They are completely different.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#50

Post by [deleted] »

curun1r wrote: post #47
MichaelGG wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent review, thank you. You capture the vividness of it very well. I will add a disclaimer, if you are talking about Goekna / Dhamma.org retreats. They are absolutely not just about technique or dogma-free, despite their marketing. They are overtly religious and the entire retreat is couched in hand-wavy woo. The retreat itself was amazing. I went to one in Quebec. Excellent facilities, crystal clear skies (it w…

The important distinction between the Goenka retreats and other dogmatic religious organizations is the instructions to only accept what you find palatable...you're free to pick and choose what you find valuable and what you can validate through personal experience and ignore the rest. If you'll remember the story of the kheer and the cardamom seeds, it's meant to encourage you to be as skeptical as you feel you need…

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