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Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

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Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#51

Post by collyw »

SteveJS wrote: post #32

Somewhat related is Thomas Metzinger’s The ego tunnel. Metzinger is an applied philosopher, directly examining what is consciousness as can be determined and backed up with neuroscience. I loved Antonio Damasio’s the feeling of what happens, and the ego tunnel is like that on steroids, with years extra work from scientists making progress on teasing out distinctions you didn’t realize were there. There is zero ‘woo w…

I watched a youtube talk with Thomas Metzinger recently. The interviewer asked if he meditated. His response was "yes" (for a significant number of years that I can't remember), "that's how you can tell if someone is serious about the study, and not just interested in an academic career". I found that comment really interesting.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#53

Post by collyw »

thsowers wrote: post #29

> The only way one can learn the technique of Vipassana is to take a 10-day course Is this really true? I agree that a large amount of people may not be able to learn the techniques outside of a retreat setting, but I think it comes down to the individual and is different for each person

I have been meditating for maybe 6 months now but just for between 10 and 45 minutes a day (and not consistently). I I haven't come close to the level of depth described in the article. I guess its possible but the intensity of such a course must help.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#54

Post by collyw »

sampl wrote: post #12

I highly recommend the book Mindfulness in Plain English if you're interested in meditation. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XF1LKW/ It strips away a lot of the "woo woo" kooky stuff and clearly explains what meditation really "is". I just finished re-reading it, and must have highlighted every other sentence.

I read that and its good. The meditation subreddit say that "The Mind Illuminated" is similar but better (I haven't read it yet).

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#55

Post by AlexCoventry »

curun1r wrote: post #47
MichaelGG wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent review, thank you. You capture the vividness of it very well. I will add a disclaimer, if you are talking about Goekna / Dhamma.org retreats. They are absolutely not just about technique or dogma-free, despite their marketing. They are overtly religious and the entire retreat is couched in hand-wavy woo. The retreat itself was amazing. I went to one in Quebec. Excellent facilities, crystal clear skies (it w…

The important distinction between the Goenka retreats and other dogmatic religious organizations is the instructions to only accept what you find palatable...you're free to pick and choose what you find valuable and what you can validate through personal experience and ignore the rest. If you'll remember the story of the kheer and the cardamom seeds, it's meant to encourage you to be as skeptical as you feel you need…

> it's meant to encourage you to be as skeptical as you feel you need to be to get value out of the retreat.

On the other hand, if you're spotted walking slowly back and forth along a line, you'll be criticized for introducing walking meditation. So while Goenka retreats might encourage skepticism (this has not been my experience), they severely discourage experimentation. They are highly authoritarian environments.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#56

Post by sorokod »

fsloth wrote: post #48
sorokod wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, people used to interpret experiences with hallucinogenic substances as religious/spiritual (some still do). Would you say that your own experience fundamentally differs? Obviously you didn't ingest chemicals but other than that, is the end result substantially different?

The original question, to which I answered, was, that what does non-religious spirituality mean? I described what a spiritual experience felt like to me. So, I suppose the key here is the personal experience. I'm sure there are a lot of ways people can have deep spiritual experiences without them interpreting it as communicating with divine forces.

I didn't mean to try to belittle you experience in any way.

The one thing I am tying to validate / invalidate is weather "spiritual" as used by non religious people, is mere hacking of our delicate physical and chemical machinery.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#57

Post by laum »

nisa wrote: post #41
MichaelGG wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent review, thank you. You capture the vividness of it very well. I will add a disclaimer, if you are talking about Goekna / Dhamma.org retreats. They are absolutely not just about technique or dogma-free, despite their marketing. They are overtly religious and the entire retreat is couched in hand-wavy woo. The retreat itself was amazing. I went to one in Quebec. Excellent facilities, crystal clear skies (it w…

Thank you. You are spot on with the quackery! This matches my experiences in participating in a course in Germany. > Maybe try hanging out with people praising homeopathy and not saying a single negative word as preparation for the kinds of things you're going to feel? Honestly, the day when silence is broken was hard to grok. The vast majority of participants were deep into esoteric and quackery themes and had a rel…

At first the supposed religiousness of it annoyed me too - but over time it sat ok with me. If you think about it, the audio course they use for the sessions was recorded back in the 90s, and back then this was refreshingly religion free. Lots of the work on meditation (things like Search Inside Yourself) which have completely reduced the amount of religion in it, are very recent compared to Goenka's course, so I think you have to take it as a product of its time. With a partial Indian background, a few times I've tried Indian writing on meditation, etc, and it is so seemingly intricately bound up with religion (almost to the point of superstition), that to extricate it as much as Goenka did for the vipassana course I think is still great work.

Unfortunately I have to agree that it does attract a lot of participants who want to believe in magic and superstition. I was very disappointed when the course was over and I found this out. Perhaps that is why Goenka is very clear in the recordings to be skeptical and only take what one finds useful from the practice.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#58

Post by Legogris »

This is by far the best I have read on Vipassana so far. Great approach and scope and good breakdown.

I went to four-five retreats but have kind of fallen out of practice in recent years.

I will begin to send this when I know people who are going.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#59

Post by milkmiruku »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #18
sampl wrote: post #12

I highly recommend the book Mindfulness in Plain English if you're interested in meditation. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XF1LKW/ It strips away a lot of the "woo woo" kooky stuff and clearly explains what meditation really "is". I just finished re-reading it, and must have highlighted every other sentence.

For people interested in what meditation really "is," at least from a Buddhist perspective, Ven. Thanissaro is worth a look. Among his many excellent books is Right Mindfulness: Memory & Ardency on the Buddhist Path > For the past several decades, a growing flood of books, articles, and teachings has advanced theories about the practice of mindfulness which are highly questionable and—for anyone hoping to realize the…

Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu++

Also, Sujato Bhikkhu;

http://santifm.org/santipada/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/A_Hi... - "A History of Mindfulness", large pdf

http://dharmafarer.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/... - "Satipaṭṭhāna Mūla: A reconstruction of the 'original' pre-sectarian Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta", small pdf

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#60

Post by MichaelGG »

curun1r wrote: post #47
MichaelGG wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent review, thank you. You capture the vividness of it very well. I will add a disclaimer, if you are talking about Goekna / Dhamma.org retreats. They are absolutely not just about technique or dogma-free, despite their marketing. They are overtly religious and the entire retreat is couched in hand-wavy woo. The retreat itself was amazing. I went to one in Quebec. Excellent facilities, crystal clear skies (it w…

The important distinction between the Goenka retreats and other dogmatic religious organizations is the instructions to only accept what you find palatable...you're free to pick and choose what you find valuable and what you can validate through personal experience and ignore the rest. If you'll remember the story of the kheer and the cardamom seeds, it's meant to encourage you to be as skeptical as you feel you need…

>you're free to pick and choose what you find valuable

This is what they say, and sure, they cannot force you. But if you do this, they criticize and condescend, telling you you're like a child not eating all his food and that when you grow up you'll find everything they say is correct.

And Goenka is very clear that the goal of Vipassana is improving reincarnation.

There is one point where they say something, maybe literally "we do not teach dogma, only truth". Saying it does not make it so! They'd be much better off not trying to convince people they aren't pushing such beliefs than being misleading about it.

As far as sleep, I tried meditating. Both there and afterwards. I do not find it as resting as sleep, and found myself drifting off while meditating during the rest of the time. What happens in my case is that I'll be awake in bed until 3-4am then finally sleep. This is fine if I don't need to get up at 5-6. But I understand this is personal and I should have fixed my sleeping habits before arriving.

For students, they seem far more tolerant of medication, probably for liability.

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