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Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

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Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#71

Post by skybrian »

fpgaminer wrote: post #55
skybrian wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or possibly, service jobs are harder to automate than it appears? What evidence do you have that it's easy to automate? In theory, you could replace a McDonalds with a vending machine, but it's not the same thing.

Possibly. Customer facing service is certainly difficult to automate away. But I believe behind the counter workforce should be relatively simple. It's hard to fathom that the unskilled masses who end up working there can't be automated away. It's not like we don't already have automated cooking lines. All the precooked foods at stores are from automated cooking lines. Just replicate that in the back of a McDonald's.…

If you have a store that sells food without people making it for you on demand, I believe that's called a 7-Eleven. They have lots of vending machines and prepackaged food. To the extent that people are okay with eating that way, they'll stop going to McDonald's.

There was a great article about the sandwich industry in the UK that goes into this [1]. And yet, even for sandwiches, Subway does well making them on demand; selling prepackaged sandwiches is an enormous and growing market but it's not the entire market.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/24/how-the-sandwic...

Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#72

Post by jandrese »

ameister14 wrote: post #69
jandrese wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because capitalism doesn't work without taxation, not in the long term. This probably sounds weird to most people, but it is the truth. In capitalism money naturally accumulates at the top, but the whole system depends on money changing hands regularly. It's the essence of the economy. With no taxation all money ends up at the top with people who have nothing to buy, the system grinds to a halt and you have total eco…

If you study the history of economic development, you'll find a lot of things at complete odds with the statements you make here. For example, while government expenditure can and usually does help drive income, massive taxation isn't necessary for economic development or to avoid the system grinding to a halt and total economic collapse. I'd point you to the latter half of the 19th century in the US for good example…

You mean the Guilded Age and the leadup to the Great Depression? Where we were only finally dug out of the hole when the government started taxing the rich at rates that most people would be shocked about today?

https://bradfordtaxinstitute.com/Free_Resources/Federal-Inco...

Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#73

Post by peterwwillis »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #30
peterwwillis wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take it out of the 576 Billion dollar defense budget that makes up more than half of all federal spending?

That's not 3 trillion dollars.

Correct. The defense budget could not pay for it all, but it could contribute a sizeable chunk.

A gradual buildup using the funds available (say half, about 288 Billion) could be done, infusing more money into the system and growing opportunities for people to improve their economic standing. At the same time you'd need to gradually pressure corporations and wealthy individuals to shift investment back into US-based work instead of imports and shifting jobs overseas.

Basically, redistribute wealth very very slowly, and work trade deals to subsidize the production of our own goods until their price becomes competitive again (because we're not going to build electronics cheaper than the Chinese any time soon). But you'd have to base all this around trade deals, because globalization will just eventually crush our poor, which will keep increasing in number.

Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#74

Post by rpiguy »

Joeboy wrote: post #42

(in the context of first world countries with functional welfare states) I'm deeply skeptical of the idea that we're going to get some sort of new deal where the rich are suddenly happy with increased subsidy of the poor, in return for increased social cohesion or whatever. The rich generally resent paying taxes and avoid it where possible. Why are they suddenly going to be happy to pay more tax, to subsidize people…

The true long term vision for basic income, which this video does not touch on, does not involve the rich subsidizing the poor.

When birthrates stabilize at or below the replacement rate it becomes difficult to grow an economy. Typically countries turn to immigration to make up the difference, but there are other ways (see below).

Furthermore for economies such as the US economy, it needs consumers more than it needs producers. We are a consumer driven economy.

So what does this have to do with UBI?

Another way to grow the economy is to print money, and ultimately I think this is where UBI is headed. Instead of importing bodies to consume more, you simply create money so your existing individuals can consume more.

Supply side economics seems to win when populations are growing, but good old aggregate demand style economics may win out the day once populations stabilize.

In the near term I agree with you, I don't see giving up a giant military, or high enough tax rates to pay for a basic income scheme.

Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#75

Post by bjt2n3904 »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #47
bjt2n3904 wrote: post #32

> There would be still be very rich and poor people, but we could eliminate fear, suffering, and existential panic for a substantial part of the population. #6m28s I actually laughed when I heard them say this, given their videos on things like the Fermi Paradox.

Can you break that down a little more? I'm having trouble connecting those two statements.

Many of their earlier videos (before they started to do "What If" videos a la XKCD) focused on the confusing, absurd, and seemingly meaningless existence of humanity -- so much so, that they made a video on "Optimistic Nihilism".

They're quite reserved in the statements that they make, as well. They won't say life is meaningless, only that we haven't found something we truly agree upon as meaningful, and given that the universe is headed towards big crunch / heat death, what does it all matter?

Given those two points, I found it amusing that they'd go so far to say that simply giving someone $1000 a month COULD resolve misery, suffering, and existential angst. It seems to fly in the face of their ethos.

Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#76

Post by colorint »

craigkilgo wrote: post #12
dmm wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Inflation is a monetary phenomenon. Is it? The US monetary base has more than tripled since 2008 but inflation since then is only 14.6%. For comparison between 1999 and 2008, the us monetary base increased by about a third and inflation between those years was around 29%.

Inflation being a monetary phenomenon is the technical definition of inflation. When you mention the 14% number, that is based on market price for basket of goods which is not technically inflation (under the definition used by economists, not the definition used by journalists).

The technical definition of inflation is raising prices. It's only a strictly monetary phenomenon if output and velocity are fixed with respect to the money supply. In other words, inflation meaning "more money" is only a technical definition in the kooky world of monetarism.

Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#77

Post by ameister14 »

jandrese wrote: post #72
ameister14 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you study the history of economic development, you'll find a lot of things at complete odds with the statements you make here. For example, while government expenditure can and usually does help drive income, massive taxation isn't necessary for economic development or to avoid the system grinding to a halt and total economic collapse. I'd point you to the latter half of the 19th century in the US for good example…

You mean the Guilded Age and the leadup to the Great Depression? Where we were only finally dug out of the hole when the government started taxing the rich at rates that most people would be shocked about today? https://bradfordtaxinstitute.com/Free_Resources/Federal-Inco...

The Gilded Age and the Industrial Revolution, yes. Not really the leadup to the Great Depression, which has very little to do with the Gilded Age and a great deal to do with credit developments, widespread corruption in government and banking and a general productive leap.

If you choose to believe that the US was somehow in a hole for 80 years despite growing massively economically and becoming the banking and investment capital of the world over that time, and if you also choose to believe that people actually paid those tax rates, then I'm not sure what we have to talk about.

Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#78

Post by b6 »

rev_bird wrote: post #68
b6 wrote: post #56

5:23 ... many argue that it might be time to distribute the spoils more evenly to preserve the social peace. This does not come from principles. It sounds like a stickup.

Workers have been generating increasing productivity for decades—Americans have never created more wealth. Yet wages have stagnated, companies have trillions of dollars squirreled away, and the richest families in the country have more money than many millions of the rest of us. Who's getting robbed?

> Who's getting robbed?

Is it the really the case that anyone is being robbed?

Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#79

Post by boomboomsubban »

sbjustin wrote: post #44
boomboomsubban wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But taking assets from people and giving them to another person is wrong, no matter how good the outcome is. This describes "profit" equally well as "taxes."

No. Profit is given, not taken.

Both are given and taken depending on your perspective.

Re: Universal Basic Income Explained – Free Money for Everybody? [video]

#80

Post by dragonwriter »

notzorbo3 wrote: post #5

I still haven't found an solution anywhere for the following problem: Living (not just housing, but everything) expenses are a lot less for dual, or even triple, income households than for single people. So there's going to be a lot less pressure on dual income households to work beyond their basic income. Logically, this would put double (or even triple) the additional pressure on single income households. Under UBI…

“People can reduce essential shelter and some other expenses and increase their free cash flow by choosing to love together” isn't a problem; it's just a basic fact that is as true without UBI as with it, which encourages expense sharing and group living arrangements, especially among the less wealthy.
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