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How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

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Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#71

Post by johncolanduoni »

allengeorge wrote: post #39

Meh. I doubt it. The US has huge advantages: a large internal market, large numbers of early adopters, an appetite for risk, an innovative mindset, excellent research institutions, plenty of world-class cities, lots of cash... I mean, yeah, the current furore is "not good", but it doesn't cancel out the combined effects of all those advantages (and I've only listed a few!)

Well the excellence of the research institutions (as far as CS and STEM in general are concerned) is pretty heavily dependent on immigration...

Also remember that people aren't completely rational actors, and an action like this carries a lot of symbolic significance for both proponents and opponents. Would you want to stay at a party your friend was rudely kicked out of for no reason just because the booze is good?

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#72

Post by SmokyBorbon »

whatever_dude wrote: post #56
hungrygs wrote: post #28

The general direction of the Trump plan regarding H-1b is the way to go. The lottery needs to be replaced with a demand system where the highest salaries get slots. A floor of $100,000/yr should exist and adjust for inflation. Next, generously expand the green card fast track, as this category of employee, as an immigrant, is a free agent to move among companies or to start their own business. To date, as we all know…

The H1B as it is has many problems, but a big salary floor is not the way to go in my opinion. Remember H1B is not just for tech workers. If you want to hire, say, an interpreter of a specific foreign language to work on a community in rural Alabama temporarily, a $100,000 minimum wage would be absurd. They instead need to go after the companies that learned to game the system. I'm not sure what the solution is here.…

Then have an exception for interpreters. Foreign workers have displaced the people in costumes at Dianey theme parks. That's absurd.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#73

Post by cortuso »

cpursley wrote: post #63
cortuso wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's $130K, which is 2x as much as before. It's senior level salary in IT (and I think for lawyers and MD's it's not starting salary either), in some cases/states Principal level. I would not invite H1B on that position, I would get one from local market for that amount of money. If you follow the line: it simply says do not use H1B more. Plus, what international student will do once he completes the college,…

> I would not invite H1B on that position, I would get one from local market for that amount of money Are you suggesting that a $130k floor for H1B workers would undermine the practice of undercutting local workers?

It's hard to predict what will really happen. Some businesses will hire more IT personal overseas, to amortize the costs and avoid H1B application at all. Some will start really searching for a local talent with higher price (that's what this idea is meant to do I guess). But considering that IT reports constantly shortage on candidates, a big gap indeed, regardless top notch universities, makes me think it's not about problem of lack of open positions, what this new idea aims to solve, it's about a will to do that job or not. Still, I'm talking about IT sector. In other areas of life things may be way different.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#74

Post by edge17 »

542458 wrote: post #62
whatever_dude wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The H1B as it is has many problems, but a big salary floor is not the way to go in my opinion. Remember H1B is not just for tech workers. If you want to hire, say, an interpreter of a specific foreign language to work on a community in rural Alabama temporarily, a $100,000 minimum wage would be absurd. They instead need to go after the companies that learned to game the system. I'm not sure what the solution is here.…

> If you want to hire, say, an interpreter of a specific foreign language to work on a community in rural Alabama temporarily, a $100,000 minimum wage would be absurd. Wow, that's a really important point. I'm so in the tech-news bubble that I'd never heard anybody say that before - thanks for pointing that out!

http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Category.asp...

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#75

Post by jordanb »

gizmo wrote: post #48
hungrygs wrote: post #28

The general direction of the Trump plan regarding H-1b is the way to go. The lottery needs to be replaced with a demand system where the highest salaries get slots. A floor of $100,000/yr should exist and adjust for inflation. Next, generously expand the green card fast track, as this category of employee, as an immigrant, is a free agent to move among companies or to start their own business. To date, as we all know…

Unfortunately this salary requirement means immigration will turn even more into a pay-to-play kind of deal. If you have money (or skills/education) borders disappear and if you're broke you're stuck in a place that offers no decent opportunities. America was built on "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free", and this H-1B change is another step away from that.

"Give me your tired, etc" is fulfilled through the DV lottery program, and support for refugees (now sadly suspended). Temporary Worker Visas have always been about providing foreign labor to American corporations to fix real or imaginary labor shortages.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#76

Post by anton_tarasenko »

The tone of tech companies does not resonate with the electorate. The Bay Area basically says to America: We have foreigners here who founded some companies and got rich, so we don't want your visa restrictions.

How do tech executives motivate the average American to support this stance? Taxes? IT companies and their owners enjoy a very friendly tax treatment. Jobs? The largest IT companies employ only 20-60k people each (for comparison, Walmart employs 2mn). Product? Software is a tradeable good, so Americans can buy it from anywhere. Pumping GDP numbers? The industry is flat for the last 10+ years.

Tech companies must put something on the table to get better immigration laws.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#77

Post by amykhar »

hungrygs wrote: post #28

The general direction of the Trump plan regarding H-1b is the way to go. The lottery needs to be replaced with a demand system where the highest salaries get slots. A floor of $100,000/yr should exist and adjust for inflation. Next, generously expand the green card fast track, as this category of employee, as an immigrant, is a free agent to move among companies or to start their own business. To date, as we all know…

The minimum salary could be industry based. For example, 150% of the average wage for that field. If the point of these visas is to bring in talent that America doesn't have, that shouldn't be a problem. These people should be paid above average salaries if they are truly a scarce resource.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#78

Post by inglor »

lupin_sansei wrote: post #44

America's tech dominance is at least partly due to the ability to offer stock options without the employees having to pay tax until they vest isn't it? Other countries mostly make you pay the tad on the value of the option when you receive it don't they?

In Israel, form 102 is exactly this exemption. You pay stock-market tax (25%) and not income tax (up to 25%) and you only pay the tax after you convert the options to stocks. (So, when you vest or as late as you'd like if you don't leave the company).

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#79

Post by macd »

gizmodo59 wrote: post #47

Things that a student coming to US faces from a developing or under-developed country: 1. Undergo TOEFL and GRE and apply to various universities 2. Save up enough money or even mortgage parents property to pay for tuition and even buy flight tickets 3. Adapt to a new culture, study hard while working part time 4. Finding a job (While its definitely easy for a CS graduate its not the same for other majors) but yet, c…

> study hard while working part time

F-1 visa students are not allowed to work at all, except in a part-time position at their current school.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#80

Post by sidlls »

whatever_dude wrote: post #56
hungrygs wrote: post #28

The general direction of the Trump plan regarding H-1b is the way to go. The lottery needs to be replaced with a demand system where the highest salaries get slots. A floor of $100,000/yr should exist and adjust for inflation. Next, generously expand the green card fast track, as this category of employee, as an immigrant, is a free agent to move among companies or to start their own business. To date, as we all know…

The H1B as it is has many problems, but a big salary floor is not the way to go in my opinion. Remember H1B is not just for tech workers. If you want to hire, say, an interpreter of a specific foreign language to work on a community in rural Alabama temporarily, a $100,000 minimum wage would be absurd. They instead need to go after the companies that learned to game the system. I'm not sure what the solution is here.…

Why would that be absurd? A highly specialized skill in an area that we can infer is generally less desirable to live should command a higher than average wage. Much higher if the situation is so desperate that a foreign worker has to be sought.

Also: the majority (by far) of H1-B visas are for technology work. It may not technically be "tech only" but in practice it may as well be.

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