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How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

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Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#41

Post by grey-area »

refurb wrote: post #21
jacquesm wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump changes plenty, in the past it was assumed that the USA would honor visa once they were issued, now it turns out not to be the case. Essentially this is breach of contract.

in the past it was assumed that the USA would honor visa once they were issued What do you mean by "honor"? A visa don't guarantee entry. It simply gives you a path to enter the country which includes inspection by immigration control. They make that very clear on the USCIS website and all the visa forms. A U.S. visa in his/her passport gives a foreign citizen permission to apply to enter the United States. A visa by…

While they leave weaselly terms like this in visas to give the government discretion, the expectation was that if you were law-abiding you had nothing to fear.

That expectation has been violated by recent actions, because green card holders with no black marks were turned away or prevented from even coming on the whim of the president. That devalues something like a green card dramatically because it could be rendered meaningless one day by fiat.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#42

Post by [deleted] »

selectodude wrote: post #26
yummyfajitas wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a breach of contract. A visa is not a guarantee of entry even though many people assume it is. [Edit: Please don't interpret my comment as suggesting I think this is a good idea. If you check my posting history, you'll discover I'm an outspoken proponent of open borders.]

A movie ticket doesn't guarantee entry to a movie, either. But that would be bananas if they didn't let you in after you bought it.

[deleted]

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#43

Post by coldtea »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #8
chrischen wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea but who will stop him?

The resistance is led by Teen Vogue, Badlands National Park, and the Merriam-Webster Dictionary.

Plus some Hollywood stars that wouldn't know about politics if it bit their arse.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#44

Post by lupin_sansei »

America's tech dominance is at least partly due to the ability to offer stock options without the employees having to pay tax until they vest isn't it? Other countries mostly make you pay the tad on the value of the option when you receive it don't they?

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#45

Post by coldtea »

mda wrote: post #25
cronjobber wrote: post #19

Let's assume that after years of drastically reduced immigration, America's tech dominance remains unchallenged. Would that make you happy or sad?

Would you be happy or sad if after years of drastically reduced Immigration America's tech dominance is destroyed?

As a non-American, I would be delighted. No need to have some single, powerful, 10000-pound gorilla have dominance over tech.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#46

Post by coldtea »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #27
cronjobber wrote: post #19

Let's assume that after years of drastically reduced immigration, America's tech dominance remains unchallenged. Would that make you happy or sad?

Considering the number of SV companies founded by immigrants, we would have to look to decades, not years, to see the effects of this policy. If the policy is wrong, it will be far too late to fix it once the results are clear. Foreign founders would simply go back to their home countries (or more reasonable alternatives, like Canada or Germany), and work in startup clusters there. In about 20 years, I predict the Si…

>Considering the number of SV companies founded by immigrants, we would have to look to decades, not years, to see the effects of this policy.

So, in other words it will be insignificant?

>If the policy is wrong, it will be far too late to fix it once the results are clear. Foreign founders would simply go back to their home countries (or more reasonable alternatives, like Canada or Germany), and work in startup clusters there.

And we'll lose the nth social site, Uber for X, or fad app?

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#47

Post by gizmodo59 »

Things that a student coming to US faces from a developing or under-developed country:

1. Undergo TOEFL and GRE and apply to various universities

2. Save up enough money or even mortgage parents property to pay for tuition and even buy flight tickets

3. Adapt to a new culture, study hard while working part time

4. Finding a job (While its definitely easy for a CS graduate its not the same for other majors) but yet, cannot be eligible to many companies that don't want to sponsor visa in long term, not eligible for small startups with no e-verify.

5. Make sure you do all the paper work with OPT, be updated on travel requirements and other stuff

6. Cannot switch jobs easily and should find an employer that has offices outside USA in case of no luck in lottery

7. Apply for H1B twice or even thrice just to find out that you did not get it!

So much of hard work and planning just to find out that it all comes down to luck in the literal sense.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#48

Post by gizmo »

hungrygs wrote: post #28

The general direction of the Trump plan regarding H-1b is the way to go. The lottery needs to be replaced with a demand system where the highest salaries get slots. A floor of $100,000/yr should exist and adjust for inflation. Next, generously expand the green card fast track, as this category of employee, as an immigrant, is a free agent to move among companies or to start their own business. To date, as we all know…

Unfortunately this salary requirement means immigration will turn even more into a pay-to-play kind of deal. If you have money (or skills/education) borders disappear and if you're broke you're stuck in a place that offers no decent opportunities.

America was built on "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free", and this H-1B change is another step away from that.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#49

Post by conanbatt »

hungrygs wrote: post #28

The general direction of the Trump plan regarding H-1b is the way to go. The lottery needs to be replaced with a demand system where the highest salaries get slots. A floor of $100,000/yr should exist and adjust for inflation. Next, generously expand the green card fast track, as this category of employee, as an immigrant, is a free agent to move among companies or to start their own business. To date, as we all know…

Probably they have been doing well below 100kU$S in benefits, because surely if they cant land a 100k gig and can land a 60k one, they have lower skills.

Its reasonable to feel discontent with such companies, but if there were free movement of people working lawfully they would still be compelled to hire immigrants. Its only frowned upon because the government said so. If the government says you can get H1B's with 50k salary, we wouldnt be talking about it.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#50

Post by cortuso »

hungrygs wrote: post #28

The general direction of the Trump plan regarding H-1b is the way to go. The lottery needs to be replaced with a demand system where the highest salaries get slots. A floor of $100,000/yr should exist and adjust for inflation. Next, generously expand the green card fast track, as this category of employee, as an immigrant, is a free agent to move among companies or to start their own business. To date, as we all know…

I think it's $130K, which is 2x as much as before. It's senior level salary in IT (and I think for lawyers and MD's it's not starting salary either), in some cases/states Principal level. I would not invite H1B on that position, I would get one from local market for that amount of money. If you follow the line: it simply says do not use H1B more. Plus, what international student will do once he completes the college, and with quarter of million in debts (say Bachelor only) ? As is now, H1B. Will you hire college fresh grad for 130K ? Don't think so. So...who will come to the college from overseas to study and brig their passion and ideas on this land ? This is USA, this IS a country made, constructed and developed by excellence and hard work of immigrants with their hopes and dreams. Cutting that idea off, putting the country and society in the mood of "preservation", could result in dangerous outcome, as society is not ready for that. This is not Europe and will never be, the rules that work there are not applicable on this land. There is no a notion of "nation" in USA, there is no such thing. It's just a colony of immigrants moved away from their homes to build something they could not there. This is a dream land, this is an opportunity land and should remain such for everyone.
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