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Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

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Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#71

Post by coldtea »

vacri wrote: post #49
coldtea wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> caught by their own elitism of not-selling-affordable-phones. Yeah, and look where that got them. From near bankruptcy in 1997 to being only the most valuable (or in top 3 depending on when you look/how you measure) of companies on the planet.

So... why does that mean that they should get special exemption from a general law? Apple can't sell in India because they are too elitist to make a model priced for the developing world (which they can absolutely choose to do with their buckets of money), so why should they be allowed a special channel into a market that they want to treat as second-class?

You do know that Apple sells second hand (refurbished) phones (and macs) in the US and West too, and they have been doing that since forever, right?

Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#72

Post by shripadk »

tim333 wrote: post #66
shripadk wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you serious? How is Human Development Index have anything to do with owning Apple devices? Even if Apple is allowed to sell it's refurbished devices it cannot compete with other phone manufacturers who sell devices with better specs at lowest possible rates. And I'm saying this as an Apple fanboy. That is the reality of Indian market. Human Development Index is mostly because of poverty which cannot be eradicated…

Not specifically the Apple deal but the general attitude: >“Why even consider allowing import of used phones when import of other used goods such as cars are precluded by 300 percent duty levies?” is what creates much of the poverty. Why not just let people buy and sell phones and cars and set up businesses without the government blocking it?

People are already doing it. India has a thriving secondary market if you are not aware. Many can't afford to buy new phones so they buy second hand phones from these markets. But this buying and selling of used devices happens within the Indian market i.e. the seller of the old phone is an Indian and so is the buyer.

The problem is that this is the first time a foreign company has requested the Government to grant license to sell second hand phones in the secondary market. What this essentially means is that Apple would dump second hand phones it receives from it's recycling policy World over into Indian secondary market. If the Government allows this then it sets a dangerous precedent with all other electronic manufacturers wanting a license to sell e-waste in India's secondary market. This is already happening with e-waste being smuggled into India illegally creating environmental hazards. Read this article published in 2007: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-china-idUSKCN0V4200. Imagine the amount of e-waste already imported illegally into India since 2007.

This has nothing to do with poverty or human development index. US environmental laws are strict enough to not allow e-waste from accumulating in US soil. So Apple is using it's "Recycling policy" to dump e-waste in India which doesn't yet have strict environmental laws. If Apple extends it's "Recycling policy" to second hand phones there would be no barrier to entry into India's secondary market. It's up to Apple to clarify it's policy.

Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#73

Post by vacri »

coldtea wrote: post #71
vacri wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... why does that mean that they should get special exemption from a general law? Apple can't sell in India because they are too elitist to make a model priced for the developing world (which they can absolutely choose to do with their buckets of money), so why should they be allowed a special channel into a market that they want to treat as second-class?

You do know that Apple sells second hand (refurbished) phones (and macs) in the US and West too, and they have been doing that since forever, right?

They want to increase their market share in India, but they're not willing to produce a cheaper phone for that, so they're asking for special treatment. Why should Apple get special treatment that others don't get in India? What is so magical about Apple that they should get this preferential treatment?

It's funny, HN seems to be against corporate sweetheart deals, and loves stories about exposing corruption. But not against Apple! No, we'll not hear a word against those guys - they're special! Hell, when the recent Apple v FBI story broke, people here were talking about this 'the most valuable company on the planet' like it was the scrappy underdog, rather than the behemoth of industry it is.

So... why does that mean that they should get special exemption from a general law?

Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#74

Post by seanmcdirmid »

shripadk wrote: post #69
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't have stores in India. Those are Indian-owned retailers licensed to sell Apple products. Indian law won't allow Apple to open their own stores in India like they have done in China. Apple would only sell second hand phones on India if their was a market for them.

Apple doesn't have to waste money in building stores across India. Isn't that profitable to Apple that they get free access to real estate to showcase its products? Not just that, Apple also earns from providing license to Indian-owned retailers and profits from sale of every Apple device. That is a good thing for Apple is it not? On the other hand we all know what is happening in China. Even with Apple having it's o…

Middle men always drive prices higher as they need their cut, part of the reason (besides taxes) that Apple hardware costs so much more in India. Also, Apple cannot provide the service that they do in other countries.

There are many unlicensed apple stores in China, I live right next to one, but they do not have a pricing advantage compared to the Apple store, so why not just buy there?

Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#75

Post by ocean3 »

coldtea wrote: post #70
ocean3 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that strategy did not work for them in India. Hence they are trying to sell cheaper refurbished models.

Well, they have been doing very well in India too: http://www.ibtimes.com/once-tough-market-apple-inc-indians-s... http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/slideshow/appleindia... In addition, they're trying to sell cheaper phones there.

I don't think they have even 5% market share. (http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/24/9790810/apple-iphone-indi...). For a global giant its very very poor. Hence the need to sell cheaper mobiles.

Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#76

Post by coldtea »

vacri wrote: post #73
coldtea wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do know that Apple sells second hand (refurbished) phones (and macs) in the US and West too, and they have been doing that since forever, right?

They want to increase their market share in India, but they're not willing to produce a cheaper phone for that, so they're asking for special treatment. Why should Apple get special treatment that others don't get in India? What is so magical about Apple that they should get this preferential treatment? It's funny, HN seems to be against corporate sweetheart deals, and loves stories about exposing corruption. But not…

>Why should Apple get special treatment that others don't get in India? What is so magical about Apple that they should get this preferential treatment?

If the law changes to allow it, then it won't be "special treatment".

What's so special about a random law that much be preserved for eternity?

>It's funny, HN seems to be against corporate sweetheart deals, and loves stories about exposing corruption.

Wanting / Asking to sell second-hand phones is corruption how?

Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#77

Post by tim333 »

shripadk wrote: post #72
tim333 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not specifically the Apple deal but the general attitude: >“Why even consider allowing import of used phones when import of other used goods such as cars are precluded by 300 percent duty levies?” is what creates much of the poverty. Why not just let people buy and sell phones and cars and set up businesses without the government blocking it?

People are already doing it. India has a thriving secondary market if you are not aware. Many can't afford to buy new phones so they buy second hand phones from these markets. But this buying and selling of used devices happens within the Indian market i.e. the seller of the old phone is an Indian and so is the buyer. The problem is that this is the first time a foreign company has requested the Government to grant l…

>Apple Recycling in India ...

Whatever Apple equipment you wish to recycle, we will collect and recycle it responsibly for free.

http://www.apple.com/recycling/nationalservices/europe.html#...

Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#78

Post by coldtea »

ocean3 wrote: post #75
coldtea wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they have been doing very well in India too: http://www.ibtimes.com/once-tough-market-apple-inc-indians-s... http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/slideshow/appleindia... In addition, they're trying to sell cheaper phones there.

I don't think they have even 5% market share. ( http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/24/9790810/apple-iphone-indi... ). For a global giant its very very poor. Hence the need to sell cheaper mobiles.

>For a global giant its very very poor

Not really, as that's not how they roll. They usually have small market share, but of the highest end / largest margin part of the market.

Those 5% can yield like 30-50% of the profits of the whole smartphone industry in India, and 80% of the high-end (more expensive) smartphone profits.

A company that only targets the high end of the market should be compared to other products/companies in that, not the overall.

Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#79

Post by vacri »

coldtea wrote: post #76
vacri wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want to increase their market share in India, but they're not willing to produce a cheaper phone for that, so they're asking for special treatment. Why should Apple get special treatment that others don't get in India? What is so magical about Apple that they should get this preferential treatment? It's funny, HN seems to be against corporate sweetheart deals, and loves stories about exposing corruption. But not…

> Why should Apple get special treatment that others don't get in India? What is so magical about Apple that they should get this preferential treatment? If the law changes to allow it, then it won't be "special treatment". What's so special about a random law that much be preserved for eternity? > It's funny, HN seems to be against corporate sweetheart deals, and loves stories about exposing corruption. Wanting / As…

You should be a spin doctor, seriously.

Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#80

Post by ocean3 »

coldtea wrote: post #78
ocean3 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they have even 5% market share. ( http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/24/9790810/apple-iphone-indi... ). For a global giant its very very poor. Hence the need to sell cheaper mobiles.

> For a global giant its very very poor Not really, as that's not how they roll. They usually have small market share, but of the highest end / largest margin part of the market. Those 5% can yield like 30-50% of the profits of the whole smartphone industry in India, and 80% of the high-end (more expensive) smartphone profits. A company that only targets the high end of the market should be compared to other products…

come on dude don't keep on changing criteria. Anyway "Not really, as that's not how they roll" this does not hold good. They are trying to get a bigger market share in India. Hence they are trying to selling refurbished mobiles. Which would be cheaper compared to brand new. Emphasis on it been "cheap". They already do that selling gen old mobiles.
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