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Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

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Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#41

Post by sokoloff »

shripadk wrote: post #39
geon wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dumping ground for second hand phones Why the negative phrasing? What is wrong with reuse? Would it be any difference if the phones were new? Is it an environmental issue?

If Apple can come with a solution for recycling these second hand phones I'm all ears. So far there is no word on that issue. We already have a lot of e-waste in the country as it is. Adding more to it will cause serious environmental hazards.

The article addresses that point directly:

"To be sure, Apple has some of the industry’s most exacting protocols for recycling products. The company says it typically manages to collect and recycle 85 percent, by weight, of devices produced seven years earlier. Apple’s eventual plan, as stated in its application to the government, is to set up facilities that take discarded phones and refurbish them for use."

Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#42

Post by _ati »

If apple is allowed to sell refurbished phones in India surely lot more people will opt for those instead of the cheaper Chinese alternatives or Indian versions and this could be the reason why the manufacturers here don't want Apple in their price segment as it might affect them directly

Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#43

Post by shripadk »

sokoloff wrote: post #41
shripadk wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Apple can come with a solution for recycling these second hand phones I'm all ears. So far there is no word on that issue. We already have a lot of e-waste in the country as it is. Adding more to it will cause serious environmental hazards.

The article addresses that point directly: "To be sure, Apple has some of the industry’s most exacting protocols for recycling products. The company says it typically manages to collect and recycle 85 percent, by weight, of devices produced seven years earlier. Apple’s eventual plan, as stated in its application to the government, is to set up facilities that take discarded phones and refurbish them for use."

That policy is for a first-hand phone. Does the same policy continue for a second-hand phone (which is basically "refurbish them for use")?

Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#44

Post by nkoren »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #24
simula67 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foreign policy is not decided based on consistency. Every democratic government has a responsibility to defend it's own citizen's interests. USA does this also, it wants free trade when it wants to export goods and services to other nations but opposes it when it comes to importing labor ( H1B VISA cap etc ). This is not evil, it is this competition between nations that improves standard of living for people everywhe…

Opposes the importation of labor? Inspite of importing more high-end labor than almost any other country? How can they be opposed to it?

> Inspite of importing more high-end labor than almost any other country?

On a per-capita basis, I don't believe this is anywhere nere correct.

Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#45

Post by shripadk »

mc808 wrote: post #28
mattmanser wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? It's pretty obvious. If you're working in another country, you're not spending money on tax, rent, food, utilities, etc. in your home country, you're spending them in the host country. Most of your income is spent in the host country. For your own example, most H1Bs want to live and spend their money in the US, not send money back home. So it's actually a terrible 'trade' for the originating country, they los…

Everything you say also applies to foreign trade of goods or capital with just a little tweaking. Would you consider it "trade" when capital flows out the country, builds facilities in a foreign country, employs people in the foreign country, sells goods to people in the foreign country, and then stores most of the profit in the foreign country?

I'm sure you have heard of Jaguar/Land Rover (the luxury car brand). Do you know who owns it? It is an Indian company called the "Tata Group". Tata Group acquired it from Ford Motors when the luxury brand was on the verge of bankruptcy. This is a brand that is "Made in Britain". Even though Tata Group is an Indian company, it operates the Jaguar facility in England and employs locals rather than Indians for its facilities. The profit is also stored by the foreign country (UK in this case).

Do you also know that many hotels in the USA are acquired by the Tata Group? The Ritz-Carlton Hotel, Boston is one good example. Again, the group employs only locals and has it's profits stored in the foreign country (US in this case).

There is no reason to believe that trade of goods or capital is lopsided to only harm the United States.

Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#46

Post by shripadk »

tim333 wrote: post #32
planetjones wrote: post #12

There's something deeply contradictory in India's attitude. For imports (including setting up supermarkets in India) there are levys, laws and regulations to make it almost impossible for foreign companies. But then India is able to export its IT professionals and outsourcing across the whole world. Is this really a level playing field? Why is no one calling this out as foul play? India seems to want one rule for whe…

This sort of policy mostly harms India itself and doesn't affect the west that much so there's not much point us calling it out. It's stuff like this that keeps India at around 130 on the Human Development Index, a little above the Republic of Congo in spite of having people bright enough to come and run Microsoft. Go protectionism and bureaucracy!

Are you serious? How is Human Development Index have anything to do with owning Apple devices? Even if Apple is allowed to sell it's refurbished devices it cannot compete with other phone manufacturers who sell devices with better specs at lowest possible rates. And I'm saying this as an Apple fanboy. That is the reality of Indian market. Human Development Index is mostly because of poverty which cannot be eradicated by Apple selling it's refurbished phones in the secondary market.

Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#47

Post by mc808 »

shripadk wrote: post #45
mc808 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you say also applies to foreign trade of goods or capital with just a little tweaking. Would you consider it "trade" when capital flows out the country, builds facilities in a foreign country, employs people in the foreign country, sells goods to people in the foreign country, and then stores most of the profit in the foreign country?

I'm sure you have heard of Jaguar/Land Rover (the luxury car brand). Do you know who owns it? It is an Indian company called the "Tata Group". Tata Group acquired it from Ford Motors when the luxury brand was on the verge of bankruptcy. This is a brand that is "Made in Britain". Even though Tata Group is an Indian company, it operates the Jaguar facility in England and employs locals rather than Indians for its facil…

I was really just illustrating that the same incomplete (bordering on dishonest) portrayal of the movement of labor can also be applied to the movement of capital.

Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#48

Post by samastur »

shripadk wrote: post #43
sokoloff wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article addresses that point directly: "To be sure, Apple has some of the industry’s most exacting protocols for recycling products. The company says it typically manages to collect and recycle 85 percent, by weight, of devices produced seven years earlier. Apple’s eventual plan, as stated in its application to the government, is to set up facilities that take discarded phones and refurbish them for use."

That policy is for a first-hand phone. Does the same policy continue for a second-hand phone (which is basically "refurbish them for use")?

Where does it say that?

You seem to be set against this so under what conditions could Apple (or anybody else) sell refurbished phones that would be acceptable to you? Or do they become problem immediately once they are not new?

Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#49

Post by vacri »

coldtea wrote: post #27
vacri wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. Apple is asking to be treated like a special snowflake in this case, caught by their own elitism of not-selling-affordable-phones.

> caught by their own elitism of not-selling-affordable-phones. Yeah, and look where that got them. From near bankruptcy in 1997 to being only the most valuable (or in top 3 depending on when you look/how you measure) of companies on the planet.

So... why does that mean that they should get special exemption from a general law?

Apple can't sell in India because they are too elitist to make a model priced for the developing world (which they can absolutely choose to do with their buckets of money), so why should they be allowed a special channel into a market that they want to treat as second-class?

Re: Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash

#50

Post by vacri »

Razengan wrote: post #10
vacri wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. Apple is asking to be treated like a special snowflake in this case, caught by their own elitism of not-selling-affordable-phones.

That may be so, but the "Mobile and Communications Council" (I assume it's a regulatory group) seems to include their direct competition. How sure can anyone be that there's going to be absolutely no conflict of interest?

Just because it has 'council' in the name doesn't mean it can make laws. And even then, why should Apple get a special exemption from a general law?
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