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Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

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Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#691

Post by beached_whale »

rand_r wrote: post #363
catgary wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s worth noting that the weekend before this, local residents of Ottawa had basically “stormed” one of the trucker convoy camps to unblock a road. There were genuine concerns that the residents of Ottawa were ready to take matters into their own hands, and it would be a bloodbath. Not to mention the blockade in Alberta where they were found with guns and a pipe bomb, with their communications indicating the…

I don’t know why they couldn’t do the friggen obvious move of asking the police to unblock the roads by force, and impounding the vehicles for repeat offences. Going after bank accounts was a coward move that never made sense. If I just sat down in the middle of a subway tunnel, I would be removed by force immediately, no matter what I was protesting. They created problems for themselves by not doing the obvious solu…

It was something like the Ottawa police said they were unable to and Ford said it was a local issue or not a priority. He was onboard with emergency act as it helped with Windsor too.

This was also voted on in Parliament too, 185 to 151

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#692

Post by loceng »

adrr wrote: post #578
Tiktaalik wrote: post #299

I never voted for Justin Trudeau and don't like him, but despite all the angry rhetoric right now in the long term I think he will be considered by history to be one of the better Canadian PMs. Amongst the Canadian PMs I've experienced, Chretien, Martin, Harper, Trudeau made the most impactful and positive policy changes (eg. legal cannabis, childcare) while navigating the country through the challenges of covid and…

Also record low unemployment. 4.9% in 2022 set records. For comparison Canada’s average unemployment rate is 7.5% over the last 50 years. https://www.cicnews.com/2022/07/canadas-unemployment-rate-dr...

Please look at these numbers in depth - not how they're presenting them.

Similarly, the majority of industry growth has been Federal jobs - from Grok:

"Since Trudeau took office in 2015, the size of the federal public service has grown by approximately 43%. By March 31, 2024, the federal government's payroll included 367,772 employees, up from 257,034 in 2015."

43% increase; paid for by the public.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#693

Post by beached_whale »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #555
bryanlarsen wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The city or the province could have done that. They didn't. The Feds could only use federal reasons. The mishandled response to the trucker protest should be blamed on the city and the province, not on Trudeau.

There is room for two failures. The province should have enforced the provincial law, and the feds should not have have taken action through the banking sector.

Provinces are absolutely responsible, policing is all on them.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#695

Post by s1artibartfast »

nazcan wrote: post #688
s1artibartfast wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is room for two failures. The province should have enforced the provincial law, and the feds should not have have taken action through the banking sector.

But this leads to the question if the province is not doing it's job, what do you do as the feds? Not saying they did right, but curious.

My preference would be that the fed enforce the laws on the books themselves (if they have the power to do so), or pressure the province to do so (using the democratic leverage available).

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#696

Post by jazzyjackson »

inglor_cz wrote: post #651
morkalork wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Investigations and penalties for everyone up the chain, starting with the frontline officers who were on the ground refusing to issue tickets. If an officer chooses to not do their job over their political beliefs they do not belong on the force.

“If you owe the bank $100, that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem.” Same applies here. If 10 officers misbehave, it is easy to fire them all, as you suggest. If a majority of the entire police force defects, your only choice is between limiting the scope of the punishment to a few ringleaders vs. basically disbanding the police force and starting a new one from scratch, hopin…

It's not unheard of to disband and reconstitute a police department. I would argue its the right move when the organization as a whole has effectively gone rogue.

The most significant example I'm aware of is Camden New Jersey.

The city’s crime rate was among the worst in the US. Within nine square miles and among nearly 75,000 residents, there were over 170 open-air drug markets reported in 2013, county officials told CNN. Violent crime abounded. Police corruption was at the core.

Lawsuits filed against the department uncovered that officers routinely planted evidence on suspects, fabricated reports and committed perjury. After the corruption was exposed, courts overturned the convictions of 88 people, the ACLU reported in 2013.

So in 2012, officials voted to completely disband the department – it was beyond reform.

And in 2013, the Camden County Police Department officially began its tenure. No other city of Camden’s size has done anything quite like it.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disband-police-camden-new-...

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#697

Post by cmrdporcupine »

eruci wrote: post #694

We should have been given the choice to properly send him off in a general election.

We kind of did, twice, and he failed to get the message.

It has been, in the past customary for leaders of parties that fail to win a majority (after being in a minority) mandate to resign. That Trudeau a) called the last election at all and b) failed to resign after getting the same result as when they entered into it... is frustrating.

It certainly created an appearance of weakness that I suspect fed into the situation with the convoy.

Also probably tactically stupid, because he got to hold the blame for all the post-COVID problems.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#698

Post by Manuel_D »

catgary wrote: post #93
csense wrote: post #34

Patio11 has some good coverage of Trudeau's handling of the trucker protest against the government's handling of COVID-19 [1]. Whatever you think of the truckers' position or protest tactics, any punishment for their actions ought to go through the laws and court system. Trudeau instead essentially told the banking system "You can't do business with those people, they're terrorists." Patio11's words of what happened…

I think it’s worth noting that the weekend before this, local residents of Ottawa had basically “stormed” one of the trucker convoy camps to unblock a road. There were genuine concerns that the residents of Ottawa were ready to take matters into their own hands, and it would be a bloodbath. Not to mention the blockade in Alberta where they were found with guns and a pipe bomb, with their communications indicating the…

You're over an order of magnitude off. Over 200 people were debunked. A donation of just $20 could result in someone being debanked: https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/even-small-donation-t...

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#699

Post by loceng »

adrr wrote: post #581
3vidence wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is absolutely no way he will be looked at as one of the better Canadian PMs.. By all accounts he will be looked at as one of the worst considering the position Canada was in at the start and end of his government. Inflation, unemployment, housing, homelessness, healthcare, crime, national unity, the overall economy. .. Just all of these things are significantly worse than 2015. With that being said I do think c…

Unemployment during his term besides covid was at record lows and still below the historic average of 7.5%. https://www.statista.com/statistics/808294/unemployment-rate...

He increased size of Federal government by 43% since 2015 - from Grok: "By March 31, 2024, the federal government's payroll included 367,772 employees, up from 257,034 in 2015."

That's 110,738 new people on pay roll - but not that are actually productive for the economy, they are counted but are not the same as free market jobs - they're actually the opposite and a negative to the economy.

This also doesn't account for the economic harm and suffocation to local Canadians already here struggling to find work, much of the work instead going to the millions of temporary foreign workers and those on student visas.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#700

Post by wk_end »

yibg wrote: post #609
TriangleEdge wrote: post #262

I have migrated from Canada to the USA and my metrics for wealth, ease of mind, actually working while at work, outgoingness, etc instantly improved. I don't plan on ever going back. I feel chagrin at seeing Canada fail. I'm glad to see Justin Trudeau pressured out, I know there won't be meaningful change associated with the decision, but I have hope.

I'm a Canadian living in the US as well. I definitely make more and am able to save more here. I have better job opportunities and also more interesting work. Where I am the weather is also much better. If money wasn't an issue I'd move back to Canada in an instant (but maybe my view of Canada is outdated, been away for > 10 years). Why? - Lower wealth inequality - Safer, with lower crime rates, especially violent cr…

I lived in the US for around ten years after college and moved back early during COVID. I'd always wanted to go back, and had the possibility of keeping my American salary and working remotely; it seemed like a no-brainer, given how unstable things were feeling in the US at the time.

FWIW, my view of Canada has dimmed considerably. The two things that I felt really set us apart when I left and over those ten years were (and these are intertwined) the stronger Canadian social safety net and the sense that, in general, Canadian culture was kinder, more progressive, smarter, and less racist. But the last few years have really put that to the test. Meanwhile, in my time in the US, I really started to appreciate the aspects of American culture that are lacking up here.

It's been kind of heartbreaking. I was seriously thinking of exploring going back to the US permanently. And then last November happened, and it's too unpalatable at this juncture, once again.

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