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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

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Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#691

Post by jonny_eh »

Redoubts wrote: post #459
baron816 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternate experience: I just moved into SF a week ago from elsewhere in the Bay. I was able to get a large, modern, luxury 1BR in a decent location for under $3K + almost a 1 month concession and no deposit. Being a single, young(ish) guy, it still makes sense to be in a city. I have more space than I need now, and I can afford the rent. Maybe things aren’t that nice right now, but I’m hoping they’ll get back to semi…

> Being a single, young(ish) guy, it still makes sense to be in a city. A city, yes. SF? No. By far it's the worst place for this I've ever seen.

Beijing would be worse.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#692

Post by asdff »

ghaff wrote: post #100
luma wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long does the “high paying” part stay true when companies who need technical talent can now pull candidates from the entire world? I wonder if the move towards remote work might wind up pushing down IT wages across the board. edit: instead of downvoting, maybe help me understand why I might be looking at this wrong?

I did not downvote but timezones, culture, language, skills, etc. are all reasons that companies will not automatically gravitate to the lowest cost areas. Many large companies in tech have global presences that have not resulted in them offshoring all their jobs. That said, I do expect you see a decrease in premiums being paid for high CoL areas to the degree that living there becomes an employee lifestyle choice an…

Plenty of offices will just adopt western hours, like west coast offices do for east coast hours, and plenty of managers will be fine with the dirt cheap shippable code coming out of eastern Europe and Africa in the next few decades as worldwide internet access improves.

On the other hand, I have read about a growing interest in returning to the office. A growing number of people are feeling unproductive working from home. A company could position itself towards shareholders as more productive and innovative with more butts in the seat than it's competitors who outsource. It will be interesting to see how this shakes out.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#693

Post by megaframe »

ipqk wrote: post #477
megaframe wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar observation, on my tiny stretch of street I've seen 7 moving trucks since SIP started, far more than I've ever seen. I get it, If you just moved or been here 1-2yr I'd leave too, the costs would make no sense. I'm right on the fence. I've been at my current place ~6 years, prices have just started to get to about what I'm paying (rent controlled). I'm hoping it drops some more so I can negotiate a reduction.…

Having worked remotely in central Europe for an SF-based company, the hours really kind of suck.

Yeah I get that, the further east you go the worse it is, and my experience working with Indian coworkers sounds like a nightmare for them.

I'm from Portugal so I was thinking of being there, 8am here is 4pm there, and 5pm here is 1am there. I kind of like the idea of having my morning to myself, and working in the evening. With lock down that's been my work schedule now. I do exercise, chores, and cooking in the morning, and actual work in the evening (the occasional meeting tends to occurs as I bake/boil/chop something).

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#694

Post by 01100011 »

welder wrote: post #690
01100011 wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I want to live in a city and compete with the best of the best? I don't want my kids to go to a top school in an urban environment. I want them to do well in an above-average suburban school and have access to recreational activities outside the city. I want to live an affordable life that allows me to save and build wealth. I want a good work/life balance. I don't see the city providing me any of that. The…

Even if you lose competing against the best, you're still better off than the ones not in the competition.

Better off in what sense? I think it depends on one's life goals and value system. I've seen people live amazingly fulfilling lives in flyover country while making average incomes, far better than an average income earner stuck in a big city.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#695

Post by megaframe »

bhickey wrote: post #421
megaframe wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar observation, on my tiny stretch of street I've seen 7 moving trucks since SIP started, far more than I've ever seen. I get it, If you just moved or been here 1-2yr I'd leave too, the costs would make no sense. I'm right on the fence. I've been at my current place ~6 years, prices have just started to get to about what I'm paying (rent controlled). I'm hoping it drops some more so I can negotiate a reduction.…

> and my employer saying they'd adjust my pay to reflect local cost of living I'm not sure what would be best. This "local cost of living" and "regional market" argument is a farce. Remote workers are competing in a global market by definition. They might as well be honest and say, "we think we can get away with paying you less."

I agree, and argued as much. Going so far as ask what their policy would be if I rent a cheep room, return every few months, and pay local taxes.

My argument being that If I remain local but because of a long commute and choose to be full time remote, how would they really know the difference.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#696

Post by Camillo »

hnmullany wrote: post #656
foobarian wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are bars and restaurants and museums in hundreds of cities around the country. What makes the ones in SF so special? Or is it rather a tech gravity hole that was enabled by combination of chance and attractive climate?

The Bay Area has the highest concentration of Michelin stars in the country. The bars have great cocktails, decor and vibe. The SFMoma & DeYoung are first class museums as good as any city outside New York in the US.

Have you ever been to Chicago? There is nothing like the museum scene there in San Francisco.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#697

Post by wolco »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #670
dongvsascript wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i said what i noticed from my 3 weeks there over 2 trips, which was contrary to what op claimed. i presented my observations asking if they were not normal for sf. so you consider a sausage festival at every bar you go ok, but not enjoying that sausagefest is awful. i think i just solved a mystery of my own. not that there's anything wrong with that, just not something that appeals to most males.

Okay, I'm gonna let you in on a shocking secret. Ready? Lean in close so this doesn't get out. Some people go to bars... to drink. Crazy, right? I know! But it's true, I swear. And it turns out San Francisco has -- well, at least pre-pandemic -- bars that make really good drinks. Smuggler's Cove is hands down one of the best tiki bars in the world. Rickhouse is a great (if crowded) new-deal whiskey bar, right around…

You kinda made his point.

Hanging out with a group of guys with everyone drinking a ramos gin fizz while overlooking the Pacfic doesn't seem what the average guy would seek in a bar.

What does on point mean? Is this a drink you order everywhere and the quality at this place is comparable to others you've tried?

Is Gin a popular choice for a young person in sf?

"Ramos Gin Fizz is on point and you can sip it while looking out plate glass windows overlooking the Pacific."

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#698

Post by abellerose »

01100011 wrote: post #694
welder wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you lose competing against the best, you're still better off than the ones not in the competition.

Better off in what sense? I think it depends on one's life goals and value system. I've seen people live amazingly fulfilling lives in flyover country while making average incomes, far better than an average income earner stuck in a big city.

I know living in a city contrary to living in the middle of nowhere really depends on how your kids will be. I would've preferred if I had been living in a city my whole life. Especially as a child to young adulthood. I did everything there is to do while not living in a city. The outdoors with being able to do whatever is nice but the social dynamic of a life in a city is hands down superior than anything imo. Something to consider as it can really be different per individual.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#699

Post by Camillo »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #675
nogabebop23 wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a sizeable group of people who found the quality of life poor prior to any shut downs or changes. SF is also not nearly as attractive to those starting a family compared to new grads and young single professionals. Combining these factors I see a significant permanent change if people can keep their high paying jobs and escape the physical proximity.

> SF is also not nearly as attractive to those starting a family compared to new grads and young single professionals. But that's been true for a long, long time about most major cities. Wasn't a big plot point in the ending of Friends in the 90s that Monica and Chandler were starting a family thus they were moving out to the suburbs? I don't see any big permanent change here except for perhaps people willing to relo…

SF is not that great even for young single professionals that would like to start a family at some point.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#700

Post by welder »

01100011 wrote: post #694
welder wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you lose competing against the best, you're still better off than the ones not in the competition.

Better off in what sense? I think it depends on one's life goals and value system. I've seen people live amazingly fulfilling lives in flyover country while making average incomes, far better than an average income earner stuck in a big city.

The average income earner could take savings and buy out the flyover people. The city benefits can be hard to quantify. Take quality of healthcare, which you can't be sure when you'll need. More often I see city people stay in the city, and instead just travel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_traveler

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