Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How America lost its love for the stick shift

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

691–700 of 729 posts

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#691

Post by GalacticDomin8r »

closeparen wrote: post #570
GalacticDomin8r wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why deny others the same opportunities? Almost exclusively these people will zip around a line and force their way in at the end. Even kindergartners are taught budging in line is not good. Why is this the problem on the people actually being considerate and are in the correct lane at the appropriate time?

No one was born in the correct lane at the beginning of time. They inserted themselves there at some point. In traffic, the only way they could have done so is to move in front of another driver. Zipper merging [0] exercises a different kindergarten skill, taking turns. Still, "lines" are a small minority of lane-changing situations, all of which involve taking the open space in an adjacent lane. [0] https://en.wikip…

Yeah and zipper merges don't increase traffic flow, they combine backup congestion so that the impact of the selfish driver is minimized. It is implemented so those who will not take their turn as intended don't have as much negative impact on other drivers.

"Lines", to use your emphasis, are by far the major time component so for me this is a meaningless distinction. Normal traffic merges should of course be accepted gracefully.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#692

Post by Markoff »

ernesth wrote: post #682
Markoff wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you live in past, nowadays even middle class cars have automatic transmission because it saves petrol opposed to past when it was exactly opposite even cheap cars can have automatic transmission, it's just option and not standard

If you add options to a cheap car, it becomes an expensive car. Dacia sandero costs 7990€. Dacia Sandero with automatic transmission costs 13750€.

i doubt the automatic transmission itself cost 4700€, most likely combined with most luxurious equipment

and dacia it's not good example, they produced budget cars and their prices for standard features of other brands are extreme, for 14000€ you would be insane to buy sandero

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#693

Post by tyingq »

mcjiggerlog wrote: post #677
anticensor wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He means hand brakes with direct mechanical action . Electronic emergency brakes do not count.

Yeah I know - I'm saying that in Europe every single manual car has a proper mechanical hand brake.

Many US cars had foot operated emergency brakes when I was younger. Also, in the US, pickup trucks are the most popular personal vehicles, right now...and they typically have foot operated emergency brakes.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#694

Post by andrewaylett »

1123581321 wrote: post #499
jabl wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It is about driver engagement. Speak for yourself. I have a manual (actually, I've never driven an automatic, come to think of it), and I couldn't care less about "connectedness with the car". My car is a device that takes me, and sometimes my family, from A to B as safely and conveniently as possible. It's a car, I'm not in a relationship with it. YMMV.

Sorry, can you connect what you’re saying for someone who hasn’t driven manual? Are you saying you only drive manual because it’s safer and more convenient? Or that there’s no difference and you happen to drive a manual out of habit?

UK resident here; I've been driving for 20 years and never had the opportunity to drive an automatic.

I suppose I could have gone looking for one when we were buying a new car, but they're not exactly common.

I do enjoy driving a manual car, but I can't honestly say my preference is due to personal experience.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#695

Post by hfdgiutdryg »

davewritescode wrote: post #689
hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even torque converter automatics don't use torque converters for anything other than low speeds anymore. Unless something has changed radically in the last few years, that's just not true. The torque converter will drop out of lock-up as soon as you demand sufficient acceleration (this will vary tremendously by engine - i.e. an inline four will do it regularly, a big V8 may meet most of your acceleration needs withou…

Locking out the torque converter isn't a new idea, it's just that newer transmissions are very aggressive with engaging the lockout thanks to all the software that lives in a modern car. Having spent a decent amount of time with ZF8 speed the torque converter is almost always locked out. Throttle response and engine braking don't lie.

I don't understand what throttle response has to do with demonstrating that it's in lockup. With an average car engine, you're going to get fairly disappointing acceleration with the torque converter locked up. I suspect that what you're seeing is the effect of having a torquey, high performance engine, based on the example cars you listed. They just don't need to drop out of lockup to deliver the day-to-day acceleration you want. Also, performance car transmissions have been tuned to behave differently than run of the mill transmissions for at least as long as I've been driving. For example, engine braking in my college friend's then-new 90s Mustang GT, whereas my family sedan would prefer to free-wheel.

Edit: by the way, I looked up the ZF8 and it's available in a bunch of configurations. One of them is a wet clutch instead of a torque converter, which I imagine has to operate like an electronically controlled manual transmission. There's even an option to have an electric motor instead of a torque converter for hybridization!

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#696

Post by ethbro »

Johnny555 wrote: post #339
ethbro wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in my city in my commute this morning (~30 minutes), I was forced to hard brake 3 times to avoid having an accident with someone wedging themself in at the end of an exit lane. I find the problem isn't people merging into your lane in front of you, but doing so badly (ie not leaving a safe amount of space behind their rear bumper and your front bumper). Semi drivers have this even worse.

Are you allowing enough space in front of you for cars to merge in without wedging themselves in front of you? That's the worst problem I see around here -- cars in the freeway running bumper to bumper, and then a block of 3 or 5 cars also running bumper to bumper trying to force their way in, but none of the cars really leave enough room for a smooth merge, so the cars on the freeway end up hitting the brakes when t…

Yes. I'm guessing because drivers are so used to "forced merging", they don't know what to do when they have an appropriate amount of space.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#697

Post by ddingus »

tomohawk wrote: post #578
_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it hasn't been proven that this happens more with automatic transmissions.

But it is pretty obvious. In an automatic, you pretty much have to touch the brakes to slow down. In a manual, you have other options. Taking your foot off the gas in a manual tends to slow the car quite a bit more than in an automatic, for example.

Depends, right?

If, left in drive gear, yes. However, many cars have several options.

In my current car, a Honda, rhe lowest gear will just creep along, next gear up will slow the car rapidly on gas pedal release.

Both gears are very well chosen for traffic. I rarely apply brake.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#698

Post by ethbro »

tombrossman wrote: post #551
ethbro wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in my city in my commute this morning (~30 minutes), I was forced to hard brake 3 times to avoid having an accident with someone wedging themself in at the end of an exit lane. I find the problem isn't people merging into your lane in front of you, but doing so badly (ie not leaving a safe amount of space behind their rear bumper and your front bumper). Semi drivers have this even worse.

> Semi drivers have this even worse. There are some advantages to driving a semi in traffic: - Lots of gears to choose from and massive torque in order to find that perfect 'idle forward' speed. - Far more comfortable ride then a car, it's not even close. - Radio communication with trucks ahead, so you know what's happening ahead and which lane to be in long before the cars figure this out. - Visibility over the top…

I was thinking stop-and-go traffic, which is murder.

Heavy load = longer stop distance = lengthier minimum safe following distance

Minimum safe following distance > 1 car length = motorists darting in front of semis

Rinse and repeat. Assuming a heavy load and ignorant motorists, there's no way to avoid constant unsafe situations. As soon as you create a new safe gap, someone slides in.

So, no. It's terrible. (And I'm not even mentioning the additional gear shifts)

https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=Merge+semi

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#699

Post by ddingus »

johnvanommen wrote: post #684
chrisdhoover wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just do like the truckers do, leave it in second and crawl. It helps to not be concerned with maintaining a 6 inch gap with the car ahead. I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics. All of the brake tapping tends to bunch people up at the end of long lines forcing them to a complete stop. In a manual just let off on the gas a little and the engine brakes a little, no brake lights to create cascading…

Interesting point. I definitely notice that I 'coast' more in a manual.

My current car allows for a quick click to neutral, and will drop right back into drive gear.

I coast nearly as much with it as I did using a manual.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#700

Post by peeters »

blattimwind wrote: post #159
peeters wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a note on that, most premium manual models come with hill assist these days. Automatically applies the brake while you accelerate from a stop.

Premium is relative. By that standard, a VW Golf is premium. (Arguably you can nowadays get it with options that were very much premium not that long ago)

I said most premium models have hill assist, not that all models with hill assist are premium.
Post reply on HN