Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How America lost its love for the stick shift

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

551–560 of 729 posts

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#551

Post by tombrossman »

ethbro wrote: post #280
Xurinos wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To all the folks replying that someone will fill the gap in front of you: that’s the point. It isn’t about reaction time. It’s about letting traffic flow easier, not fighting with each other. It removes the need for your fellow drivers to feel a tension when it is time to switch lanes, to not have to make a risky maneuver. You get to relax when driving because now you aren’t competing to get to your destination, and…

At least in my city in my commute this morning (~30 minutes), I was forced to hard brake 3 times to avoid having an accident with someone wedging themself in at the end of an exit lane. I find the problem isn't people merging into your lane in front of you, but doing so badly (ie not leaving a safe amount of space behind their rear bumper and your front bumper). Semi drivers have this even worse.

> Semi drivers have this even worse.

There are some advantages to driving a semi in traffic:

- Lots of gears to choose from and massive torque in order to find that perfect 'idle forward' speed.

- Far more comfortable ride then a car, it's not even close.

- Radio communication with trucks ahead, so you know what's happening ahead and which lane to be in long before the cars figure this out.

- Visibility over the top of vehicles in front (except another truck, obviously).

I think the only thing better than a semi for heavy traffic might be a luxury car with adaptive cruise and a little roof-mounted drone-cam that you could launch to check out the view ahead (though this sounds like something Homer Simpson would dream up). Your own little personal traffic copter/R2D2, with a recharging dock on the roof. Someone please tell Elon Musk to make this a priority for new Teslas. It could even check out side streets in cities and find quicker routes.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#552

Post by fingerlocks »

crunchlibrarian wrote: post #408
lttlrck wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an E350 and the transmission is very good. I do think you need to make the effort to learn how your transmission responds, no different to a manual really. And for extra whizz while overtaking use the paddles to preempt the move by changing down a gear or two - exactly as I would in a manual. I say this having owned numerous manual cars, including BMWs, gen 1 and gen 2 Minis and a ‘74 TR6. Mind you it didn’t l…

I have not driven any Mercedes in a looong time, I'll have to try that. I also live at 8000 feet and regularly drive up to 10000 feet so that might be part of why every transmission seems horribly confused. Some car makers don't seem to test for thin air at all.

Can you elaborate on this? I understand that engine combustion is affected, but how does that impact the transmission? Is the torque curve skewed? Are ambient air changes not compsensated by the O2 sensor? Or does the transmission oil change in viscosity or something?

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#553

Post by troels »

Fezzik wrote: post #116

That bums me out, but I get it. My first non hand-me-down car was a beat-up Audi A4 (manual) off craigslist that I loved for years and years as a ski bum. I am definitely one of the many "manual transmissions are more fun" people. But once I got that office job, even 15 minutes a day in city traffic with a manual angered me, so I transitioned to an automatic. Now that I am out of the city I would love a manual again,…

" ... so I transitioned to an automatic"

Clever.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#554

Post by jabl »

1123581321 wrote: post #499
jabl wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It is about driver engagement. Speak for yourself. I have a manual (actually, I've never driven an automatic, come to think of it), and I couldn't care less about "connectedness with the car". My car is a device that takes me, and sometimes my family, from A to B as safely and conveniently as possible. It's a car, I'm not in a relationship with it. YMMV.

Sorry, can you connect what you’re saying for someone who hasn’t driven manual? Are you saying you only drive manual because it’s safer and more convenient? Or that there’s no difference and you happen to drive a manual out of habit?

The second. In my country (perhaps I should have said in my previous post that I don't live in the USA) manual transmissions are the norm, although automatics are certainly becoming more popular.

I don't have anything against automatics per se, I can well see myself getting a car having one in the future.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#555

Post by petre »

another-cuppa wrote: post #510
chrisdhoover wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just do like the truckers do, leave it in second and crawl. It helps to not be concerned with maintaining a 6 inch gap with the car ahead. I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics. All of the brake tapping tends to bunch people up at the end of long lines forcing them to a complete stop. In a manual just let off on the gas a little and the engine brakes a little, no brake lights to create cascading…

Second in a car is optimistic. I often have to put it in first and just let the engine tick over. Some people don't think their car can do this. I'm not sure if that's true or if they are just bad drivers, though. My car will happily roll in third if it's flat. I find I'm usually able to keep rolling in gear, which doesn't use any more fuel than just idling, and not apply the brakes in most "stop and go" traffic.

My car does it but it's a small diesel 4x4 with gearbox optimized for lower speeds. It happily rolls in the first on low slopes. I have yet to try this with a normal petrol engine car. I have to leave some free space in front of my car and sometimes aggresive drivers from neighbouring lanes will annoyingly slip into that space without signaling, causing a stop on my side.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#556

Post by Krasnol »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #380
int_handler wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It is about driver engagement. Yes, you can row your own gears with paddle shifters, but no automatic will ever give you the same kind of engagement or connectedness with the car as a manual with three pedals will. But yes, if there is a smoking gun for the death of the manual in America, it would be our crumbling, congested roads and absurdly long daily commutes.

> Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It was about efficiency and cost for ages though. That's why manuals were popular and why they aren't popular in the US anymore. Modern automatics (dual clutch, CVTs, even computer controlled single clutch and plain old torque converter slushboxes) are so much more efficient now that manuals don't make as much sense as they used to.

This is the first time ever I hear about efficiency in this context.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#557

Post by jabl »

PascLeRasc wrote: post #497
jabl wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It is about driver engagement. Speak for yourself. I have a manual (actually, I've never driven an automatic, come to think of it), and I couldn't care less about "connectedness with the car". My car is a device that takes me, and sometimes my family, from A to B as safely and conveniently as possible. It's a car, I'm not in a relationship with it. YMMV.

Some people really like engagement and fine control in their things. There has to be something in your life, like coffee or operating systems, where you can understand this.

Sure. Just saying that deriving great satisfaction from owning and/or driving cars isn't some universal trait in humans. For many of us, it's just a means to an end.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#558

Post by pfultz2 »

foobarian wrote: post #273
Xurinos wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To all the folks replying that someone will fill the gap in front of you: that’s the point. It isn’t about reaction time. It’s about letting traffic flow easier, not fighting with each other. It removes the need for your fellow drivers to feel a tension when it is time to switch lanes, to not have to make a risky maneuver. You get to relax when driving because now you aren’t competing to get to your destination, and…

This comes up often, but you gotta think about what would happen if everyone suddenly tripled the gap they leave in front of them. The same road surface would suddenly have 1/3 the throughput. I shudder to think what kind of traffic jam / commute time that would lead to at the edges of the road network. I do appreaciate when people drive densely packed and I try to do the same (up to a safety limit). For merging ther…

Higher density may allow for more volume but it can increase viscosity.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#559

Post by mseidl »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #430
chrisdhoover wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just do like the truckers do, leave it in second and crawl. It helps to not be concerned with maintaining a 6 inch gap with the car ahead. I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics. All of the brake tapping tends to bunch people up at the end of long lines forcing them to a complete stop. In a manual just let off on the gas a little and the engine brakes a little, no brake lights to create cascading…

> I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics. A simple hypothesis like this is easy to test: does stop and go traffic exist in places that are predominantly manual transmissions? I live in Asia and I can tell you unequivocally that, yes, stop and go traffic still exists even when every single person has a manual transmission.

It has been proven that one person over braking when there was no need can cause a traffic jam for hours.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#560

Post by mseidl »

jrs235 wrote: post #384
int_handler wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It is about driver engagement. Yes, you can row your own gears with paddle shifters, but no automatic will ever give you the same kind of engagement or connectedness with the car as a manual with three pedals will. But yes, if there is a smoking gun for the death of the manual in America, it would be our crumbling, congested roads and absurdly long daily commutes.

> driver engagement The same reason I love(d) driving motorcycle. It's a full body engagement. Both hands, both feet, and super alertness and focus on everything around you.

As a bike owner myself, I also believe in the: "Four wheels move your body. Two wheels move your soul"
Post reply on HN