Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

kimi.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

681–690 of 1001 posts

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#681

Post by chongli »

OccamsMirror wrote: post #659
energy123 wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same reason Meta open sourced Llama and AMD open sourced FSR. When you're behind it is a prudent strategy because it undermines investment in the private frontier. Once you're on top you pull the rug and go closed source. There are no morals in this anywhere to be found. > 100s of Millions That is utter peanuts given the stakes. This is competition between two super powers for the most important technology i…

> most important technology in human history. Do you really believe this?

You don't have to believe it. It's a bet. If you're wrong, everybody loses their money. If you're right, you want to be the biggest winner.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#682

Post by ed_mercer »

pixelesque wrote: post #447

Semi-off-topic, but... Is the release of this why Google's share price is down 4.5%?

No, Pichai is just once again sitting with his thumb up his ass while Gemini is getting owned by better models.

https://www.reuters.com/business/google-gemini-launch-delaye...

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#683

Post by lucianmarin »

boredatoms wrote: post #655
simonw wrote: post #111

Pelican: https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer#url=ht... - rendered via the OpenRouter API: https://openrouter.ai/moonshotai/kimi-k3 95 input, 16,658 output = 25 cents! https://www.llm-prices.com/#it=95&ot=16658&ic=3&oc=15 (13,241 of those were reasoning tokens.) I think that's the most expensive pelican I've rendered through a Chinese model so far.

I worry that some model provider will go and hire artists to draw pictures of pelicans on bicycles to make training data

Shouldn't a LLM know how a pelican looks like from biology without being trained on very specific artistic data?

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#684

Post by esafak »

energy123 wrote: post #477
bottlepalm wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really feels like end game type stuff - AI designing its own next versions, designing its own chips, etc.. The advancement is slow, but fast - like a plant growing. We really are the boiling frogs now aren’t we? And the people with eyes wide open are us, and anyone that frequents this site really. Is this Milliways?

GPT 5.6 Pro one shot a perfect score to the new IMO today and nobody cares. We are in the end game.

news to me?

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#685

Post by chongli »

codemog wrote: post #625
specialist wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an attack on USA's AI tech giants. Destroy any hope of profitability, prevent further capitalization, ultimately bankrupt them. Hasten the popping of the AI bubble. Drag down the stock market. Put a dent in the GDP (alleged growth). Cause investors to pull back, further depressing economy. Devalue the dollar. Kicking off an interest rate doom loop. Challenge USA's hegemonic role in the emergent multi-polar (post…

Not everything is an 8D chess conspiracy mate. If they wanted to do this, they’d wait until OpenAI and Anthropic were at their absolute peaks of investment and then release an open source model that was as good. That’s not what they’ve done at all.

A hundred million is table stakes. They get better results by stoking the fires (bluffing) and keeping their opponents locked in a war of raising and re-raising the stakes. By amping up the pressure, they drive more and more investment into the bubble.

China also benefits massively through all of the commodity hardware they make. Sure, they aren't competitive in the chip arms race, but they dominate all the component and power electronics markets. Think about all the power supplies and other commodity components needed to build a gigawatt-scale data centre.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#686

Post by weitendorf »

kasey_junk wrote: post #513
tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying if someone gives you something for free, it's immoral if they don't continue giving it to you for free forever? The children's book "if you give a mouse a cookie" was about exactly this phenomenon

A more charitable reading of this comment is that you can make a game theoretical argument for these behaviors that doesn’t require altruism. And that argument therefore doesn’t preclude going closed at a later date.

“He’s only being good because he likes how it feels, or values goodness, or exists in a social context where doing the right thing is socially rewarded! That has no bearing on whether he, intrinsically, is good!”

Not to get all philosophical but this makes no sense outside of the context of a very specific post-Protestant, engagement/outrage-driven social media context.

If people are “only being good because it’s in their best interest” the last thing you should be doing is arguing against valuing good things, or making it impossibly difficult for someone capable of doing good to be trusted. Also literally the basis for Western (Plato, good as attractor state, res publica) and Eastern (kongzi, filial piety, social harmony) civilization btw.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#687

Post by anon373839 »

vl wrote: post #581
softwaredoug wrote: post #478

So Chinese labs are driving essentially towards commodotized intelligence. Even if its a few months behind the US. Is this a classic 'commoditize my compliment' situation? They want to sell the hardware and infrastructure behind AI and make the software part not the value driver / moat? I can see it. But also even two Chinese labs sinking 100s of millions USD into training isn't exactly commoditization. It's still a…

This is strategy by Chinese government, so much of US economy is invested in AI. Releasing free or cheap versions of the models undermines US economic growth. It’s asymmetric strategy that makes sense if you are close second in AI race. If situation is reversed, US would do the same.

> so much of US economy is invested in AI.

This is a talking point that plays into the frontier labs' desire to be seen as "too big to fail". While yes, several hundred billion dollars have been invested in AI, (a) much of this is in the form of circular Monopoly-money deals, and (b) the US GDP is over $30 trillion annually. The real economy - the one that makes food, builds homes, provides medical care, etc. - is so much bigger and more important than the AI industry.

That's not to say that an (inevitable?) AI crash won't be the spark that ignites a big recession. We are well overdue for one.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#688

Post by toephu2 »

m3h wrote: post #86

> Kimi K3 is Kimi’s most capable model to date, with 2.8 trillion parameters. This puts them on the top of the largest open models list: Kimi K3 2.8T DeepSeek-V4-Pro 1.6T (49B active) Kimi K2.6 ~1T (32B active) GLM-5.2 754B (40B active) DeepSeek-V3.2 685B Mistral Large 3 675B That's one mighty large model! Moonshot is going to need the USD 500 million reportedly raised earlier this year to run this model.

How many parameters do the top closed models use?

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#690

Post by jfaat »

ryanbuening wrote: post #599
sebmellen wrote: post #276

My testing prompt for these models is by no means objective or repeatable (like the pelican) but it's a nice test of curiosity: > Impress me with a 1 page html file Result: https://ydaurtg3fdwhq.kimi.page/ Came out looking pretty cool! By contrast, Fable produced a moderately more interesting "live observatory" of the solar system.

Fun! It generated a mandelbox fractal for me: https://mandelbox.kimi.page

Ha, Konami code and all! That's impressive. I think Kimi has had the best design sense of any frontier-ish model for about 6 months.
Post reply on HN