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Notes on Vision Pro

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Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#681

Post by alexvoda »

lolinder wrote: post #548
brookst wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m confused. Are we judging a product category based on how it’s promoted, or how it’s used? I don’t think my opinion of smartphones would be any different if early promotions had shown the downsides, or bigger upsides, or bizarre and unrealistic scenarios. Am I wrong to be anchored on how they’re actually used, which literally nobody foresaw?

I don't think OP is saying smartphones aren't dystopian in practice, just that no one set out to create the dystopia. That part of the Vision demo showed that the designers thought that this additional contribution to our dystopia was a positive thing, and that's concerning.

Precisely. And you can withness this in sibling threads. For some reason, today some people actually openly desire or pretend to desire the dystopia.

My suspicion is that this is related to the longtermist movement.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#682

Post by alexvoda »

chasd00 wrote: post #452
Jochim wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a fan of VR/AR but found Apple's reveal video to be profoundly sad. There's a sense of isolation running through the whole thing. The immediate connection many people made was to Black Mirror. The father wearing the headset and recording his children play around him really hit that note. From the children's perspective, instead of their father's face they see a pair of black goggles and rather than their father's…

> The father wearing the headset and recording his children play around him really hit that note Yeah that was a mistake. It should have been a worker recording how to assemble something to make a training vid. The family recording thing probably turned off a lot of people.

Precisely. Some mechanical training or live assistance is entirely plausible. I experienced a similar thing with HoloLens and other than the limited FOV it was really convincing as a tool.

Apple unironically going for the dystopia angle is a weird flex.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#683

Post by askvictor »

originalvichy wrote: post #673
rchaud wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classic is right. That period ended with the iPad reveal almost 15 years ago.

Are we gonna pretend the Apple Watch didn't exist? AirPods, if we want to stretch? Pebbles and other smart watches filled the criteria, but never delivered a cohesive package. I do admit that the first 3 or so generations of Apple Watches are pretty rubbish, but 4th onward with the possibility of all-day battery life, the watch became a clear winner compared to all others by manufacturers. Garmins and other fitness-f…

The corollary to my original point, is that Apple's first gen product isn't great (but still better than the competition), but after a gen or two is the bomb. OG iPhone? Meh. iPhone 3GS? That's where it became useful. OG iPad? Meh. iPad 2? yep.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#684

Post by mavhc »

CPLX wrote: post #675
mavhc wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're hanging out with friends in foreign countries for free right now on this website, many people have friends they only communicate with via text, and some only with voice, and others with video, and others physically

No we’re not we are staring at a glowing screen and typing stuff.

So what's the difference between standing next to someone talking to them, and typing to them?

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#685

Post by unusualmonkey »

alexvoda wrote: post #653
unusualmonkey wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Secondly, all of the examples above were examples of trying to avoid reality. 1) What makes reality important? 2) What is the definition of reality? > In all VR spaces you will absolutely be the product while also being milked for every single micro-transaction you can pay. How does that differ from reality? Are you not paying for the walls that are presumably around you right now?

I will not dignify your questions with an answer because they are a philosophical derailment. And turning the conversation into one about solipsism and epistemological nihilism is a dead end. Related to this, the simulation hypothesis is nothing but repackaged theism. Many have treaded this territory and nothing of use was discovered. Besides, I was the one who asked first the much more pragmatic question of why some…

You pose these questions, and then when asked to clarify, claim derailment?

If you think reality is important, then it's upon you to define reality and why you think it's important.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#686

Post by mewpmewp2 »

alexvoda wrote: post #667
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the future it won't be possible to have a life as it is like now and it's only possible in virtual realities. The scenarios that are normal and natural for people can only be offered in those pods. You might not even be able to tell any difference when you are in a pod. In fact you could be in the pod right this very moment and you could be the main player where all scenarios are created and catered specifically f…

As I expected you do not want to engage in actual dialogue and answer the question I asked. You are just posturing that it is inevitable and therefore do not want to answer why you favour this dystopia to the detriment of any other possible future. Moreover you are also steering this towards the simulation hypothesis which is a dead end for a debate. I will no longer entertain this charade.

I haven't said I favour that. It does seem inevitable however. How would you expect humans to end up? In 10 years? In 50 years? In 200 years?

People are already out of their natural habitats, and they will be even more. Is there going to be some sort of magical future moment where people achieve what they wanted to achieve and will they be happy?

How could it happen if environment is going to completely change? What once gave rewards to humans, in the future can not, since there wouldn't be similar events that have built humans throughout the evolution.

People are already addicted to smartphones, people are depressed and have issues with their mental states, despite World being more comfortable and safe to navigate than ever before, people are overall not necessarily more happy.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#687

Post by gofreddygo »

jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

There are 3 things that standout about apple's vision product line.

First there's technology. This is clearly better than anything else in the market. Enough has been said on this.

Then there's usability and market. There's no real trojan horse feature that will get this product mainstream right now. Apple's hope is that the dev community will either build one or users will point them in the right direction with usage stats and telemetry. Maybe they will, or they won't nobody knows.

Finally there's the future. I see people comparing this to previous apple products and their past experiences with them etc. There appears to be two factions here, one that says "This is the future I want and I love it", and the other saying "This is the future I don't want and hate it". Both groups however are saying one common thing ... "this is the future". And that's pretty much Apple's bet.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#689

Post by beezlewax »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #686
alexvoda wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I expected you do not want to engage in actual dialogue and answer the question I asked. You are just posturing that it is inevitable and therefore do not want to answer why you favour this dystopia to the detriment of any other possible future. Moreover you are also steering this towards the simulation hypothesis which is a dead end for a debate. I will no longer entertain this charade.

I haven't said I favour that. It does seem inevitable however. How would you expect humans to end up? In 10 years? In 50 years? In 200 years? People are already out of their natural habitats, and they will be even more. Is there going to be some sort of magical future moment where people achieve what they wanted to achieve and will they be happy? How could it happen if environment is going to completely change? What…

Being in a permanent state of happiness doesn't exist for humans and it shouldn't.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#690

Post by andymatuschak »

ttepasse wrote: post #256
andymatuschak wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s custom.

If you got time and energy in the near future, please, consider slightly enhancing it according to the average web surfers expectations. Particular irritants were the broken scrolling (bound to a container), the broken footnote links and the forbidden content behind links. Additionally the classic escape hatch, Safari Reader, didn’t work.

Sorry. I built it in a weekend several years ago and haven't touched it since. Someday I'll give it some more attention…
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