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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#681

Post by counttheforks »

SSLy wrote: post #632
hnarn wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can just download the eSIM If we disregard the fact that many older but still usable phones don’t support e-sim (which was the original point), what do you mean ”just” download the e-sim? At least in my country, getting an e-sim is a pretty involved process which requires secure authentication, and specifically in my case that authentication would be gone with the now-broken phone if one didn’t have the foresig…

I have Orange Flex. I can just install the app on a new phone, login with email, and have new eSIM issued and installed within a minute.

Sounds like it would be trivial to compromise your phone number and sms 2fa

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#682

Post by palata »

heavyset_go wrote: post #538
kiicia wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you seem to be completely sure that everyone loves and wants pwa newsflash: many users hate pwa, they prefer native apps

Someone's dislike of PWAs is irrelevant to whether or not someone else should be able to use them if they want to. It's also irrelevant when it comes to users who want to benefit from competition in the app distribution market. If you don't like PWAs, you're free to not use them, and you're even free to benefit from the improvements their competition brings to the whole mobile software ecosystem. It's also ironic to…

> If you don't like PWAs, you're free to not use them, and you're even free to benefit from the improvements their competition brings to the whole mobile software ecosystem.

IMHO, that's very naive. Look at ElectronJS apps. I hate ElectronJS, still the most used apps on my Desktop computer are ElectronJS. Why? Because I don't have a choice, because it's cheaper for the developers.

Before ElectronJS, I actually had real desktop apps. So yeah, I see the case against PWAs.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#683

Post by mirekrusin »

jeroenhd wrote: post #377
mirekrusin wrote: post #302

They should just allow installing other operating systems instead. If you want out of their platform, install Linux OS on your phone and have whatever you want there. Wouldn't that make everybody happy - Apple, EU and customers?

I would love that option, but even with Ahasi for iPhones you'll still need to deal with the horrific kludge that is the modern modem. Open source networking stacks exist but they're still extremely limited. Just look at how long it took for the Pinephone to receive calls, and they interface with the modem over a standard protocol like USB. The ability to install your own OS would be a nice end goal, but at this pace…

It would create incentives to explore and benefit from those efforts creating healthy non-monopoly ecosystem.

It would likely create second market for their devices that Apple doesn't care about (because they don't release new iOS updates for old devices), it would create incentive for vendors to support open source through legacy hardware reuse (what is your hardware legacy reuse score as opposed to destroy-recycle-as-minerals score kind of thing).

We live in times where shoes have longer life span than many billions transistor devices which is mad, non eco friendly status quo where government should be stepping in instead of some cherry picked nonsense that will take endless decades to iron out and at the end of the day will make all parties simply unhappy.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#684

Post by madeofpalk »

kaba0 wrote: post #85
edandersen wrote: post #76

I wonder if they considered an "iPhone Europe Edition" - USB-C, side loading, physical SIM cards. Sounds like a good phone!

What’s good about physical SIMs? I do like apple for daring to improve the status quo there, so I want my European Edition with only e-simsz

Why would you want it with only esim? Seeing as esim still works in iPhones with a phyiscal sim card slot, what benefits does dropping it get you?

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#685

Post by xenonite »

vivegi wrote: post #434
xenonite wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, my interpretation is that Apple either increases their fees or decreases prices for an app that is also distributed elsewhere. I don't see a problem with that. If a producer grants exclusive distribution rights to a seller, the typical consequence is that the seller gives the producer a greater profit share in return. On ending those terms, the seller may rightfully reduce the profit share, in my opinion.

> ... Apple either increases their fees or decreases prices for an app that is also distributed elsewhere I don't get why anyone should be paying Apple a rent for using a 3rd party app store (lets say exclusively). As a hypothetical, lets say Epic Games or Steam launches an Alt App Store for games that can be installed on ios. Why does any gamedev using those stores have to pay Apple any transaction fee? Just doesn't…

I don’t think developers should be paying a rent for using a third-party App Store. I meant it like that: if a developer wants to sell both in a third-party store and in the Apple apps store then Apple is not sole distributor. Losing exclusive selling rights, Apple has every right to cash in a higher fee.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#686

Post by palata »

candiddevmike wrote: post #566
kiicia wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you seem to be completely sure that everyone loves and wants pwa newsflash: many users hate pwa, they prefer native apps

Most users don't know WTF a PWA is, let alone have an opinion of them.

Nope, but many users will tell you that they like iOS better because it's "easier to use" or it "looks better" than, e.g. Android.

And that's most certainly because Apple enforces more UX consistency on iOS apps.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#687

Post by kazinator »

palata wrote: post #686
candiddevmike wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most users don't know WTF a PWA is, let alone have an opinion of them.

Nope, but many users will tell you that they like iOS better because it's "easier to use" or it "looks better" than, e.g. Android. And that's most certainly because Apple enforces more UX consistency on iOS apps.

Google breaks consistency and wrecks the user experience with each successive Android release.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#688

Post by reinsdyr »

SSLy wrote: post #632
hnarn wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can just download the eSIM If we disregard the fact that many older but still usable phones don’t support e-sim (which was the original point), what do you mean ”just” download the e-sim? At least in my country, getting an e-sim is a pretty involved process which requires secure authentication, and specifically in my case that authentication would be gone with the now-broken phone if one didn’t have the foresig…

I have Orange Flex. I can just install the app on a new phone, login with email, and have new eSIM issued and installed within a minute.

Not everyone has that option. For my carrier I have to call them and ask if they can help me set up esim each time because I can't do it myself. And each time it takes at least 30 minutes. Plus I just don't trust esim yet, it hasn't been able to shine as a technology. Give it a few years, I'm all for esim, but we have to make the switch gradually. Give me both for now and keep physical sims alive for the next 7+ years to get everyone onboard. By then the process for getting an esim will have gotten waaay smoother.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#689

Post by madeofpalk »

vivegi wrote: post #70

From the article > In addition, developers may have to pay extra if they want their apps to be available outside of the iOS App Store, Gurman says. The statement is a bit ambiguous. Is it pay Apple extra or pay extra to the 3rd party to have their app listed in the 3rd party app store? The former doesn't sound right; It is probably FUD. Logically, a 3rd party app store could compete on significantly reduced fees rela…

> Even if there are signup fees, the share of revenues that Apple is today taking away from the developer would go down in absolute terms with a 3rd party store.

I guarantee you Apple will find a way to still make the same money.

Just like how in the Netherlands dating apps don't have to use IAP, but the apps need to pay Apple a 28% royalty on all in app purchases that don't go through them.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#690

Post by oblak »

anonymousab wrote: post #633
oblak wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have no right to delete installed games, do they? How, exactly, is steam going to prevent you from accessing the files on your computer? They are always there and ready to be archived by you and even Steam itself. Now, some, or even many, new games may refuse if they are somehow extremely dependent on the service. The ones that I have tried run fine. Most old stuff, though.

> How, exactly, is steam going to prevent you from accessing the files on your computer The vast supermajority of games on steam require steam itself to be operable in order to even run. Valve absolutely can break or turn off steam and (legally!) revoke access to most games on most steam user PCs that way.

Are you sure they can legally break my games without due compensation? For any reason whatsoever? I find that hard to believe.
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