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Donald Trump Is Elected President

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681–690 of 1001 posts

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#681

I think we learned that fake news (used to pump up fake issues) is now a legitimate campaign strategy that works even on people who should know better. Trump won on a mountain of fake issues: Immigration: both conservative and liberal economists agree that immigration (illegal or otherwise) does not suppress wages and does not suppress job growth. https://www.cato.org/research/immigration http://business.time.com/201…

> Terrorism: more toddlers killed Americans than terrorists in 2015. For every terrorist killing someone on US soil, more than 4000 Americans killed each other.

Terrorism isn't a fake issue. You're ignoring the potential devastating effects that a successful terrorist attack on U.S. soil could have. Terrorists are always trying to up their game and its because of this that they represent a significant threat. Toddlers, and homicidal fellow Americans, represent a fairly fixed threat compared to the unknown possibilities of terrorists (for example a chemical or nuclear weapon released in NYC).

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#682
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "socially conservative" mean in 2016 if not racist/sexist/homophobic? One of Trump's slogans was "Take America back"; that's not particularly subtle as to from who. The line gets a bit muddier on the fiscal side. If you're all for cutting programs that disproportionately support the poor and the poor happen to be disproportionately minority is there a racial component? That's worth being aware of.

Pro-life, opposed to drug legalization, 2nd amendment rights, to name a few. Sorry, but if that's what you think of all conservatives you have as much prejudice as you think they do.

I definitely don't think of guns as a social issue... is that where it is usually classified? Granted that it doesn't fit "economic" perfectly either.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#683
post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump Until now I thought that wasn't a bad strategy against Trump as he had said and done so many repulsive things far far beyond what I would of thought the voting population would of tolerated. For example, "grabbing women by the p *y" I would of thought would have alienated the entire female voting population. For some reason, some women voters seeme…

But consider, "got 'em by the balls" is a commonly used expression. If Hillary had said that she had got Col Ghaddafi "by the balls" no-one would have batted an eyelid. It certainly would not have alienated the entire male voting population. The double standard meant that focussing on this one line, undermined Hillary's campaign.

The objectionable thing about the "grab them by the pussy" tape is NOT that Trump dared to use the word "pussy" in a private conversation that ended up being recorded.

The objectionable thing is that it indicates that Trump has, on multiple occasions, grabbed women's genitalia without their consent, purely because he's a celebrity and nobody stops him.

If Hillary had said that she had gotten Col. Ghaddafi "by the balls", I agree that nobody would have batted an eyelid because everybody would have understood that she was not discussing a situation in which she habitually sexually assaulted men and was able to get away with it because she was the Secretary of State.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#684
post #109

I have a lot of thoughts, but here's one: Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. In general, making the case against someone else rather than the affirmative case for yourself doesn't work. It's reaction versus action. It's undoubtably true now that there was a very real populist anger towards the existing political order, and…

> at the expense of talking about why she should be president. Hillary couldn't make that argument because it would've drawn more attention to her most damning flaw: The fact that she's a textbook demagogue who was on the wrong side of every progressive issue until she found it politically expedient to "evolve". That's why so many people were so passionate about Sanders. You could go back to C-SPAN videos from 1992 a…

It's interesting how my own political positions change over time and are completely unrecognizable compared to 20 years ago. I consider it a strength. Yet for a politician it's associated with hypocrisy or triangulation.

I'm a big fan of Bernie, but I'm not sure I want a politician with early 90s views of everything...

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs that can't be exported are safe from movement. Hairdressing and cleaning for instance. That doesn't mean the person doing it can't be an immigrant, though, so perhaps by restricting immigration you reduce competition for it. Jobs that compete with similar jobs in other countries can potentially benefit from trade barriers. Make foreign cars expensive and there will be substitution with local cars. Long term it's…

Re higher minimum wage. (using real numbers here, for the Netherlands) For a support job, I want to employ a uneducated person. Just answering calls and clicking some buttons. (Could also be a student, no need for any experience etc) Costs me maybe 10 euros per hour. Why a student? Is relatively cheap and it gets the job done nicely. Now, if the minimum wage would go to 14 or more, what would happen? Would I still em…

My experience is otherwise. I remember entering the job market thinking that like my parents had experienced you'd get some low/no-skill entry level job somewhere and work your way 'from the mail room' up a position of actual skill. That it was possible to 'get your foot in the door' and then get a better job based on being a known good worker and then showing you also had the skills to do more.

That doesn't work because companies outsource entire stacks of tasks. There isn't an "entry level" job anymore. There's no path inside when everyone wants experienced workers.

So what would happen is probably a 'Google customer service' level of customer service. Simply much less with the same people they already want.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#686
post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at the expense of talking about why she should be president. Hillary couldn't make that argument because it would've drawn more attention to her most damning flaw: The fact that she's a textbook demagogue who was on the wrong side of every progressive issue until she found it politically expedient to "evolve". That's why so many people were so passionate about Sanders. You could go back to C-SPAN videos from 1992 a…

There's a dependency tree required to get to the point of "vote", and you have to pass thru "respect" first. I disagree with, but respect, Sanders, Stein, Warren, Feingold (and some other lefties). Hillary equals revulsion, repulsion. I can't be talked from "respect" to "vote" with someone I can't even respect first. The D party worked very hard on converting "respect" people to "vote" people. I think they achieved 1…

People did not think she was genuine. They disliked her so much, that they picked a TV personality, said stupid stuff and off-color remarks. That says a lot about the level of disconnectedness between what she/her team/media thought of her and what a lot of people, even traditionally voting Democrats thought of her.

I guess nobody around her who had an inkling dared to raise their hand. Can't even imagine what they'd say "Ma'am, people don't believe what you are saying, can you be more genuine a bit?"...

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at the expense of talking about why she should be president. Hillary couldn't make that argument because it would've drawn more attention to her most damning flaw: The fact that she's a textbook demagogue who was on the wrong side of every progressive issue until she found it politically expedient to "evolve". That's why so many people were so passionate about Sanders. You could go back to C-SPAN videos from 1992 a…

This was actually what I thought was Clinton's best quality. I believe it's called "triangulation" and it means figuring out what compromise can be achieved in the current political circumstances and going with that rather that what you believe to be the one true right answer, if that would lead to less pragmatic progress. Basically, "the perfect is the enemy of the good" applied to politics. e.g. "Don't ask, don't t…

This was actually what I thought was Clinton's best quality. I believe it's called "triangulation" and it means figuring out what compromise can be achieved in the current political circumstances and going with that rather that what you believe to be the one true right answer, if that would lead to less pragmatic progress.

Basically, "the perfect is the enemy of the good" applied to politics.

A valid point, in spirit.

But the basic problem with the Clintonian philosophy (a term which was coined during Bill's tenure, actually) is that they both took "triangulation" to such an extreme (and made so many 180-degree flip-flops on basic issues, which really should have been principle gut calls -- Hillary's gay rights being a classic example) that the end, you could never get a fix on, let alone believe them what they stood for. It's like nailing jello to a wall, basically.

To be truly successful in politics -- the stance to take (which I hope this election proves) is not "triangulation at all costs" (a.k.a. Standard Clintonianism). Nor is it "perfection at all costs". But it does require a keen sense of judgement to know when, exactly, to make a proper gut call between the two -- and stand up for the right thing, and say the right thing. Even if it seems the majority is against you, or no one is listening to your speeches on C-PAN.

That, and a sense for not letting one's self be "played" (in the sense that Hillary appears to have genuinely believed both the Bush's administration line about the imminent threat of WMD in Iraq, and his private assurances -- albeit not encoded in the resolution that she tragically voted for -- that he wouldn't invade unless all diplomatic avenues had been exhausted; or in the sense that both of the Clintons allowed themselves to be played, for decades, by the Christian Right).

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#688

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

> what policies can be put in place specifically to help this demographic?

The overall tenor of change in recent decades is flat-out throwing them under the bus. In almost every way, the global society moves in directions that conspire to make this whole class of people extinct.

Short of stopping global progress, I see no long-term "solution" for them.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#689

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

I live in a relatively small suburb of Seattle. I'm a software developer. There are no jobs for me where I live. None. None within 20 miles. The only job for me is in Seattle or Bellevue or Redmond, an hour-long commute. I love where I live, and I don't want to live in Seattle (which I could barely afford anyway-- I like owning a house). I also don't want to exclusively work-from-home and be cut-off socially from my…

This is a part of modern life: You have to go where the jobs are. Apologies if this comes off as antagonistic, but why would you complain about having to an hour commute to a job when you have the benefit of living exactly where you want to live? Do you really expect to have everything exactly the way you want it? I get complaining about a four or six hour commute, but an hour each way/option to live at home for a great career and a great life seems like something most people would be really, really grateful for.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. I couldn't disagree more. This campaign was all about emotion, not rationality. Apparently facts don't matter and that's very hard to deal with.

What I find truly amazing is how people say "RIP Democracy" (not all of them), when it were the people of the US who elected Trump, didn't they? Also that the media is totally disconnected with the ground reality, I know it is in my country, it is more in the US apparently.

Democracy is not just voting (which the US is doing badly at, given it's system).

It's also respect for the rule of law (Rechtsstaat), democratic processes, democratic institutions, respect for minorities, women, separation of church and state, accepting dissent, and a pluralism of opinions.

Trump is not very good at these.

And the voting itself may become an issue in itself - now with total control by Republicans, they can increase the voter suppression to keep old white men in power for a couple more decades.

The "RIP Democracy" bit is maybe a bit dramatic, but the concern for the already weak democracy is very real.

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