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Donald Trump Is Elected President

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301–310 of 1001 posts

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#301
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can think of several things, from cultural long term changes, rhetoric and acknowledge of human struggle, to smaller changes on the local level. We could start by not calling them privileged, demeaning them in their struggle. Acknowledging peoples struggle in life is often the first step in helping a demographic, be that women, black, white, immigrant, American born, or what have you. As cultural changes, one would…

I don't know about this one. I'm able-bodied and have 0 problems with being called privileged for being able bodied. I can hear well, I can see fine, I don't need any machines or devices to help me move around. In this respect I'm very privileged. I don't feel like I'm being demeaned by acknowledging this. It is actually to me acknowledging that other people struggle in ways that I do not. Similarly, I struggle to se…

The problem isn't with the concept of privilege itself. The problem is that the concept and the word have been weaponized into an insult instead of the admonishment to recognize one's advantages that it should be. That, and too much emphasis has been put on racial privilege and not enough on class privilege, or at least social class privilege.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#302
post #109

I have a lot of thoughts, but here's one: Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. In general, making the case against someone else rather than the affirmative case for yourself doesn't work. It's reaction versus action. It's undoubtably true now that there was a very real populist anger towards the existing political order, and…

I'm quite sure every campaign speech would disagree with you.

But that's not what gets coverage.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#303
post #109

I have a lot of thoughts, but here's one: Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. In general, making the case against someone else rather than the affirmative case for yourself doesn't work. It's reaction versus action. It's undoubtably true now that there was a very real populist anger towards the existing political order, and…

> Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump

Until now I thought that wasn't a bad strategy against Trump as he had said and done so many repulsive things far far beyond what I would of thought the voting population would of tolerated.

For example, "grabbing women by the p*y" I would of thought would have alienated the entire female voting population.

For some reason, some women voters seemed to of tolerated this. It should of been easy win for Hilary.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#304

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

Well first, the DNC needs to stop sucking up to Wall Street and Silicon Valley elites. They should've gone with Sanders and stop tipping the scales for the Clintonistas just because they got connections with the elites. Hillary had her shot in 2008 and that should've been that. So they need to pull left...HARD. No more limousine liberalism. As for the RNC, they really really really really need to stop propping up the…

"Sorry for the crude language. I'm just annoyed by what I've seen in social media from liberals and conservatives on this."

I think a lot of people are. I know I am. A lot of that is due to the language people are using, especially when things get heated. Working on civil discourse, trying our best to refrain from saying things we might at other times regret not phrasing better. One of the benefits of forums is that we can take that moment before pressing submit to decide whether it's really something we want to send as written.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#305
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reconcile your desire to leave behind hate when you cast a vote for a candidate who's core positions were one of hate? If Trump does not continue a platform of hate, how would you not view that as a slap in the face as a supporter? He promised you hate, you said "Yes, I'll take one of those", and now say don't do that? You can not have it both ways, your vote is one for hate whether you bury your head in t…

> He promised you hate Can you point to where he actively promoted or promised "hate"? > You can not have it both ways, your vote is one for hate You assume those with whom you disagree are below you morally. This mentality is why Trump is president.

He called for a ban on Muslim immigrants, said illegal Mexican immigrants are criminals and rapists, and suggested that his supporters should assassinate his opponent. That's just off the top of my head.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#306

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

It's very interesting to me that so many union households voted Republican. If the Democrats can't rely on organized labor, they really are screwed.

Are the Demnocrats a party of elites and the Republicans a populist party now?

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's as loud of a mandate as can be expected from a strongly divided country Is not winning the popular vote really a strong mandate? http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/09/501393501/...

Politicians know the electoral college decides the election. If the candidates had been campaigning for the popular vote, presumably Trump would campaign harder for more votes in large states like California and New York.

It's about the people, not the politicians. The fact that campaign strategy matters more than campaign platform is a huge weakness in the current system.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#308

So, I voted for DJT (I like calling him that, for some reason). I didn't vote for him because I agreed with any of his policies (as best I can tell he never actually presented any during the course of his campaign) or because I thought he was the best representative for the people of this country. I did so for a couple of reasons: 1. I like a good underdog story. The people that support him, for a multitude of reason…

> I refuse to believe that close to half the country hates people of color and wants to completely isolate us from the rest of the world by closing our borders. It just can't be true.

I have to agree with the other commenter who asks if you lived in the Deep South. I grew up in Louisiana. In the early '90s, we had David Duke (whose name you may recognize from this campaign), an actual, genuine, Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard, be a state senator, run a very close to successful campaign for US Senate, and run a very close to successful campaign the following year for governor. Wikipedia recounts the vote totals for the gubernatorial election:

[Edwin] Edwards received 1,057,031 votes (61.2%), while Duke's 671,009 votes represented 38.8% of the total. Duke nevertheless claimed victory, saying, "I won my constituency. I won 55% of the white vote," a statistic confirmed by exit polls.

We can argue about what "hates people of color" means, precisely, but if 40% of voters, and 55% of white voters, are willing to put a KKK Imperial Wizard in charge of the state, it's not an implausible claim. Maybe not half the country. Maybe a quarter. Maybe the majority in some states and not others. Maybe the core constituency of some but not all senators. Is that okay?

And given this country's recent history of explicit anti-black political actions by people in power (see e.g. George Wallace's "segregation forever" and Lee Atwater's candid statement of the Southern Strategy), it's hard to argue that that all evaporated since then.

> I don't know if any of that change or disruption is going to be good or bad for me or the rest of America, but things are certainly going to be interesting for the next four years.

There are a lot of people (e.g., me, presumably you) who can deal just fine with four "interesting" years. There are a lot of people who can't. My LGBT friends are freaking out, for instance, and with a vice president who believes in torturing the gay away, I don't blame them. My capable-of-being-pregnant friends are freaking out. My non-citizen friends on valid visas are freaking out.

Disruption to force change is a fine way to solve some problems, like Netflix's infrastructure being reliant on AWS not shutting down machines. But this isn't Netflix's infrastructure, this is people's lives. I know plenty of people who aren't asking whether to uproot their lives but how, and they're pretty uninterested in having an interesting four years.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#309
post #109

I have a lot of thoughts, but here's one: Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. In general, making the case against someone else rather than the affirmative case for yourself doesn't work. It's reaction versus action. It's undoubtably true now that there was a very real populist anger towards the existing political order, and…

> at the expense of talking about why she should be president. Hillary couldn't make that argument because it would've drawn more attention to her most damning flaw: The fact that she's a textbook demagogue who was on the wrong side of every progressive issue until she found it politically expedient to "evolve". That's why so many people were so passionate about Sanders. You could go back to C-SPAN videos from 1992 a…

This twitter meme basically sums up my feelings: https://twitter.com/VoteTrumpPics/status/796032206238060545

If you can't open it, it's an exchange between Gimli and Legolas from the LoTR movie.

Gimli (wearing Bernie hat): I never thought I'd be fighting side by side with a trumpster.

Legolas (with MAGA hat): What about side by side with a deplorable?

Gimli (wearing Bernie hat): Aye.

Gimli (wearing Hillary for Prison 2016 hat): I could do that.

Ordinarily if the choice is bad I'd vote third party, but I really didn't want Hillary in and I was pretty sure this wouldn't be the election when the third party wins it.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#310
(I'm in the UK, but I think the discussion is broad enough to be applicable)

Given Trump's win, looming Brexit etc., what's the way forward for a moderately-progressive-mostly-centrist like myself?

I can completely understand where a big chunk of Trump's support has come from. For a large number of people, globalisation is shit. Employment has become less stable; the gap between rich and poor appears to be growing; there is a sense of disenfranchisement with politics, and there is rampant corruption. Generally, people have every right to be totally pissed off with this situation; they essentially feel ignored by a distant 'elite' or whatever, and it seems pretty obvious that there will eventually be a reaction against that.

I certainly don't feel that Trump-ism and Brexiteer-ism is an actual solution to these problems; they do seem like relatively opportunistic populist movements that have capitalised on popular resentment. I have basically zero confidence that these movements will solve any of the problems they claim they will, and think that they will likely cause lots of damage along the way.

But the big question is – where is the credible centrist or even leftist alternative to this approach? Was it actually Sanders in the US? (I'm a little unclear on the extent of his support). In the UK, there's a leftward swing in the Labour Party, but that's complicated by a lacklustre leader. But is it actually the same sort of populist rebellion, just expressed in a different way?

I don't subscribe to old-fashioned Socialist views of the economy – but still, I'd like to see a world in which corruption is tackled; in which all people have a fair chance to succeed; in which education and healthcare are widely available regardless of wealth; in which companies are free to trade but are responsibly regulated… but I'm now deeply unsure of what the next steps are.

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