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Being ambitious and being a dad

nicholascharriere.com

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Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#671

Post by bloomca »

cableshaft wrote: post #557
ron_woods wrote: post #503

Sorry if this offends anyone but why must we choose between having a great career and being a great parent. Why is it a zero-sum game? Want to be great at something neglect your children to do so. Want to be a great parent, fine you have a mediocre career. From the article you are ambitious about building things. Well guess what children are, the ultimate piece of clay from which you get a front row seat to mold. If…

> why must we choose between having a great career and being a great parent. Why is it a zero-sum game? I had basically this exact conversation with a close family member, who sees having children as being forced to give up on her dreams of being a writer forever, which I just don't get (she's already written and released 4 novels which have made some decent money, just not enough to do it fulltime, and still has a d…

For women it is much harder as they don't even have an option to put less energy into kids at all, society pressures and berates them if something is off (men might get a comment but largely it is ignored and accepted), so I can totally see why she feels this way, _especially_ for a side thing.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#672

Post by Jtarii »

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #333

If we are talking about points people don't make, how about this: your life is going to get harder and worse as you get older. Your dreams will very likely die. Having kids will make that more clear, but honestly I know plenty of people with and without kids and they all struggle with the not fulfilling their ambitions (or realizing those ambitions and finding they weren't what they imagined), the fading of youth, di…

This seems like a very strange way to look at children, in effect they are a means to an ends for you personally to think your life means something. Surely you would want children because you think the world is intrinsicly beautiful and would want them to experience that? If you think life is bitter and depressing then why on earth would you force someone else to experience that as well?

It just seems like a very nihilistic and egotistical way of viewing children. Your children will also grow old and their dreams will also die and they will be faced with the same problems in life that you are currently facing.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#673

Post by Apocryphon »

xp84 wrote: post #666
Apocryphon wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference likely there is in the ‘40s you were seeing improvement after the Great Depression and employment during WWII, followed by the postwar boom. Whereas the past two generations have seen precarity increase while living standards falter if not drop compared to their parents’ generation. So they are striving to recreate what they once experienced in their childhood, yet may never return. Also the entirety o…

People had kids even in the 30s, too. During tough times, we have to work harder and endure more adversity. Our great grandparents understood this just fine. In western countries, current generations (including my own) are incredibly soft, and expect that because they know boom times existed before, we are simply owed an equally easy time automatically — but in reality, there are often external factors that just don’…

But people are working harder- they’re simply working harder at their jobs.

It should also be noted that the birth rates in China are not increasing, either, despite the end of the One Child Policy. Partly it is also because the younger generation feels immiseration from higher costs of living and fewer opportunities- see the concept of involution.

Finally, during the Great Depression, fertility rates in the U.S. dropped to all-time lows. Not unlike the Great Recession, which has triggered a nonstop decline. We all live in the shadow of 2008.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#674

Post by siren2026 »

Derbasti wrote: post #252
marssaxman wrote: post #32

The passionate hunger to do something significant and meaningful with my life was a major reason I took care never to have any children. Having grown up in a large family within a religious subculture full of other large families, the amount of time and attention children consume was crystal clear from a young age, and I knew that I was going to need every scrap of energy I could spare for the work I wanted to do. Ye…

> The passionate hunger to do something significant and meaningful with my life was a major reason I took care never to have any children. Raising kids is probably the most meaningful and significant thing I have done with my life.

Is it really? How much of that is a "feeling" that evolution made you feel in order to protect your kid from issues?

having kids is the baseline normal for millions of years. As much as you "feel" that this is the most important thing you ever did, it is worth taking a step back and think rationally about this. Is it really? What about it makes it SO important? Because we for sure are not going extinct at all. Having a lot of kids has always been the default. If you don't have kids the world will be absolutely fine, in fact nothing will change at all.

So you should ask yourself. Why is it the most meaningful thing you ever did? Because it is YOUR DNA? Isn't that then a completely self-centered pursuit?

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#675

Post by yoyohello13 »

sailfast wrote: post #575
cableshaft wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why must we choose between having a great career and being a great parent. Why is it a zero-sum game? I had basically this exact conversation with a close family member, who sees having children as being forced to give up on her dreams of being a writer forever, which I just don't get (she's already written and released 4 novels which have made some decent money, just not enough to do it fulltime, and still has a d…

Screaming hot take: sometimes folks use giving up on their dreams or ambitions as an excuse. (_sometimes_) But also it's just a different deal for mothers than fathers. Physically, mentally, it's just not comparable.

It is always funny to read these threads where all the men are saying how you don't need to compromise when they have a stay at home wife keeping it all together. It's a totally different ballgame for the majority of women.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#676

Post by siren2026 »

marliechiller wrote: post #461
sneak wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need children to have these sorts of feelings, unless you can only get them from some small people who don’t have any choice but to love you.

Do you have children? If no, then how can you make this assertion? If yes, what or who is filling the gap that children fill for you?

This is a fallacy. You don't need to live a situation to be able to comment about it.

Especially if we try to rationalize the choice. If you talk about "feelings", then fine. But be aware that "feelings" could simply be your hormone levels changing after having kids.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#677

Post by blobbers »

thefz wrote: post #253
blobbers wrote: post #23

I'm shocked by the amount of time people who don't have kids waste. So while PG may believe that people may have their "act already together" pre-kids, I sort of look at the amount of time people without kids waste and think "if only I had that much free time..."

> I'm shocked by the amount of time people who don't have kids waste. I'm shocked by the sanctimonious tone of those with kids; it's likely professional bias from having someone that needs schooling at home. Then, I will always be amazed by how those with offspring feel the need to constantly validate and justify themselves for their choice, while those without barely touch the argument.

I'm not saying I'm better than me without kids; I'm just saying the level of freedom (high) and time management required without kids (low) is shocking and I believe it can only be fully realized in the normcore world by having kids.

I think to be honest its a good indicator of who I might consider a good boss; if its an uninvolved parent who hires out help to manage their kid and doesn't participate, that's a scary person to work for. They will expect the same of you.

Similarly, those without offspring don't fully understand that free dinner at work isn't a perk. You have a small life form that needs you at home to be present.

Things like kids rolling in to work at 11, eating free lunch, then working a few hours and eating free dinner is no longer fun; it becomes an annoying perception of non-productivity. Partly jealousy, because you used to be able to do that. And now you are regimented around a school and activity schedule.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#678

Post by siren2026 »

Gareth321 wrote: post #266
Derbasti wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The passionate hunger to do something significant and meaningful with my life was a major reason I took care never to have any children. Raising kids is probably the most meaningful and significant thing I have done with my life.

Agreed. I'm well travelled. Have had a very fun and satisfying dating life. A great career. Accomplished many life goals. Nothing comes close to fatherhood. Which frustrates me immensely, because I feel that society at large did everything it could to convince me that parenthood is terrible. Movies and TV shows portrayed only the bad. Teachers told me that becoming a parent was the worst thing in the whole world. A w…

>> Which frustrates me immensely, because I feel that society at large did everything it could to convince me that parenthood is terrible

Uh? I feel it's the opposite. Society constantly judges people that don't have kids. Having kids has always been the norm. It projects you as a grown up mature adult. In fact I think a ton of people have kids simply because they want to give that image of being a well established mature person.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#679

Post by moultano »

Personally, I decided that being ambitious at work wasn't as important to me relative to being involved in my kids' lives, and intentionally pulled back. I'm fortunate that my work offers part time options, so I went down to 80%. I take two half days per week to spend the afternoon with my kids after school.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#680

Post by moneycantbuy »

I would be open to having kids if society were better. But as it is reproducing is too risky. Cost of living is already super expensive, no community support, friends' kids are mediocre at best and often disabled. Divorces are more financially devastating. Plus the whole fascism in the USA thing and staring at a screen their whole lives as the environment gets destroyed. Plus my girlfriend doesn't want them and I'm old. Maybe on another planet. Hence the idiocracy.
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