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French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

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Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#671

Post by fidgewidge »

__turbobrew__ wrote: post #652
grecy wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered about suing the government for raising the retirement age. They're changing the deal we agreed to, without my consent. If I had known the full extent of the altered deal (i.e. no retirement till 69), I would have made different decisions from the start. If I have a 20 year mortgage with the bank I can't just change the terms so that the deal suits me better. Why can the government do that with my…

The government regularly screws people over without their consent. The repercussions is to protest and make the government’s life as miserable as possible.

No, the repercussion is to realize you can't rely on government and stop voting for governments that make lots of promises. This is what happens when a society rejects libertarianism. Instead of a nice private pension provider you can take to court you have the government, who forbid others from running Ponzi schemes whilst forcing everyone to take part in theirs.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#672

Post by happymellon »

sethammons wrote: post #539
andsoitis wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The economy doesn't work for the people anymore and drastic productivity increases have somehow not really improved our lives in terms of freedom, time, physical/mental health, quite the opposite. If trees could just all agree to remain short, they wouldn't need to waste resources to outgrow each other to reach sunlight.

Watch or read The Hidden Life of Trees and you may have to rethink your imagery. It would appear trees may be "agreeable" with each other.

Except Poplar. That's the Microsoft call centre scam of the tree world.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#673

Post by Nasrudith »

joe_the_user wrote: post #283
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades ... Every president, be they socialist or liberal, have attempted to tackle the issue, only to get country-paralyzing backlash.... it isn't a sustainable system. Good For them? They've been trying to change this forty years? So they were trying to change this back when it ipso facto was sustainable, since it's survived 'till now. How credible does that…

Awkwardly that same logic applied to global warming would not work out well. Under the rug is not a solution unfortunately.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#674

Post by fidgewidge »

lr4444lr wrote: post #301
notch898a wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I figured the one upside of retirement was it was a baseline for the poor. If it screws them over too I think it should just be eliminated all together and return the tax to the worker to save/invest on their own.

You know what would happen: they'd be taken by scams disproportionately, and we'd hear to no end how their lesser educations left them vulnerable to that. The taxpayer will still be on the hook to bail them out.

Yes they might just invest with some sleazy ponzi scheme that then collapses, telling them the money they thought they saved isn't there and they'll have to keep working for longer instead of retiring at the age agreed.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#675

Post by cmehdy »

gabaix wrote: post #666
cmehdy wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I didn't even get into the minister pushing for the reform doing crosswords during a parliamentary session on his subject, the inflation absolutely exploding in France, the surge of students falling below poverty lines and needing food stamps worse than during covid, the ministers genuinely advising the population to "wear turtlenecks during the winter", the abuse of 49.3 article (similar to Canada's notwiths…

This comment is good illustration of why most democratic gouvernements lose support over time. The media collect a list of disappointing behaviors, social media push said content to disgruntled citizens, and the government loses all credibility over time. The ability for a government to not slip is crucial for slowing the decay.

What's your point? That seeing how we're getting screwed is bad for us?

How about having the government actually do better and be accountable for it instead? How about Macron promising to follow the CCC's recommendations on dealing with the climate crisis and instead throwing it all in the trash?

That you attribute my remarks to some kind of misled social media craze is what's actually messed up in this exchange. And as far as I can tell, the guardian or euro news are far from being simple tiktok ads, but people who refuse to see things will continue to find arguments in bad faith to do so.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#676

Post by HaixuanTao »

cmehdy wrote: post #465

As a French citizen, I find it unsurprising that the usual top comments here are all about numbers. Life expectancy going up, do your part, work work work. That people are angry is not about the damn numbers. It's about the attitude of a political class that had private restaurant dinners behind closed doors during lockdown times where the population was fined for being out walking their dogs, it's about a president…

> left-leaning ideas of the younger generations about ecology and equality "extreme-left"

Whatever the labelling you want to use, but we know for a fact that extreme ecology is going to destroy our country. We saw what happened with French nuclear, we are seeing it in the EU car industry, we are seeing it in French housing. We already know that radical ecology is going to bring social unrest. That the first to suffer is going to be poorest people.

> deficit that was literally created by giving money to large companies and rich people in the form of tax deductions.

We are still one of the most tax heavy country with the most social contribution in Europe and in the world. Macron is just trying to level the playing field and make France attractive.

> it's about people asking for compassion towards difficult jobs more than for their own selves, and I could go on...

After this reform, we will still be one of the most generous country in the world even for pension and social net even among Europe and even more worldwide.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#677

Post by bloppe »

retinaros wrote: post #235
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…

the system IS sustained. the main white collar one even generates profits. increase the salaries that will increase money being sent to retirement funds and it won’t be a problem anymore. france income per capita has been the same for the past 20 years. they are stealing our wages to make us slaves and they blame us for not working enough. christine lagarde pushed for blocking wage rise in the EU, european commission…

I'll admit that I don't understand French social security well at all, but based on what I've read online it seems like increasing salaries would actually reduce the amount of money going to social security because that would mean lower profits for employers (who contribute a higher percentage of their income). Obviously, in terms of wealth redistribution, it's better to have higher wages. But increasing them would actually hurt the social security system.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#678

Post by cmehdy »

mrfumier wrote: post #668
cmehdy wrote: post #465

As a French citizen, I find it unsurprising that the usual top comments here are all about numbers. Life expectancy going up, do your part, work work work. That people are angry is not about the damn numbers. It's about the attitude of a political class that had private restaurant dinners behind closed doors during lockdown times where the population was fined for being out walking their dogs, it's about a president…

As a french citizen, I agree it's not about numbers. If young people were understanding the numbers, they would go on streets to push for the reform to be adopted. The problem is, there is an extreme left group, dreaming of the big night of uprising and revolution to install a communist government in France. So they take every opportunity to block the country and mess everything up, even though they're not even conce…

Your contempt won't do much in the face of an actual majority voicing its disagreement (you know, the majority that Macron did not deserve but got because people feared the extreme right). And your numbers would be wrong unless you chose to ignore the Cor. Either you don't understand the risks of disregarding the political unrest or you actively want that unrest. Sorry but I'm not keen on having an extreme right president at the next election myself.

https://www.cor-retraites.fr/node/595

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#679

Post by bloppe »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #460
hcurtiss wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By increasing everybody's salaries, it seems likely to me the cost of goods and services would go up by virtue of inflation. There is no free lunch. At the same time, prosperity is not a zero sum game. The rise of China has coincided with increased living standards in nearly every country. I'm not sure who would be "stealing" your wages. If I were to say, it's French labor policies that are stifling innovation and pr…

Time and time again it’s the same bullshit argument. I’ve grown tired of it. The price of goods and services has decoupled from the cost for a while now, and prices are rising at a staggering rate without salary increases.

Sounds like an excellent opportunity to start selling goods and services.

Re: French workers protest plan to increase retirement age

#680

Post by mmarq »

retinaros wrote: post #235
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #87

The french pension reform attempts have been going on for decades . I remember in the mid-90s a huge, weeks- (months-?) long public transit strike which, funnily enough, kick-started Parisian's interest in roller-blading (and led to the awesome weekly Friday-night roller-blading tour [1]. If it's your thing, I highly recommend it! But be prepared to have to go over some cobblestone sections) France's system has the w…

the system IS sustained. the main white collar one even generates profits. increase the salaries that will increase money being sent to retirement funds and it won’t be a problem anymore. france income per capita has been the same for the past 20 years. they are stealing our wages to make us slaves and they blame us for not working enough. christine lagarde pushed for blocking wage rise in the EU, european commission…

You can’t increase salaries de jure and even if it were possible, it’s not clear how the governor of the ECB would be able to pass laws.
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