It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness • Hacker News Board

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#651

Post by brnt » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 10:52 AM UTC

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #630

brnt wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Less than 1%. That's the number of people who detransition simply because they didn't feel it was the right thing for them. About 1% who do so through the hospital procrdures. About a third just stops showing up for followups and hormones. According to the detransitioner, who falls into that category, and has found a small community of similar people, this is what's wrong with the statistic: it's extremely importan…

Please share where you got those numbers from, I'm sure there's a good laugh to be had about how anybody got that "one third" figure. A minor side note: Stopping hormones does not mean someone has stopped transitioning or is detransitioning. It just means they've stopped taking hormones. Second side note: Detransitioning doesn't mean the person isn't trans either, it just means they've stopped transitioning. Third si…

These numbers are published by Dutch health authorities, and confirmed in the article at [1].

Nobody argues trans people should be stopped, but it is argued that mental healthcare preceding such a proces must be significantly improved. A lot of teens are transitioning, and their bad self image and self hate, inflamed by heavy social media use and the extremely well documented adverse effects on mental health of social media, are, it seems, too often channelled into this solution leading to regret later.

Improving care is an all-round benefit to them.

[1] https://www.hpdetijd.nl/2022-10-31/de-transitie-heeft-mijn-l...

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#652

Post by Jochim » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 11:20 AM UTC

int_19h wrote: post #643

robotresearcher wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve often wondered why nobody say, talks about removing gendered pronouns altogether in formal speech instead of adding 50 new ones for instance. 'They' instead of 'he/she' is one of the things people actually use, and it's exactly dropping the gendered pronoun in favor of an existing neutral pronoun. It's strictly simpler and smaller language. My teenage kids use this construction a lot and I'm getting used to it…

It is, but some people specifically insist on "he" and "she" and will get offended if you use "they". In one such case, when I asked why "they" is inappropriate since it is by definition inclusive of all genders, the question itself was declared highly offensive and "erasing".

I think there are multiple layers behind why someone might find "they" inappropriate. I don't think they're necessarily all valid but I think they're understandable.

1) Gender is currently a political topic. The use of gender neutral pronouns is, rightly or wrongly, associated with holding certain political beliefs. People who do not hold these beliefs are likely to reject their use on that basis.

2) Gender is a matter of personal identity. A fairly common desire for people is to be "good" at the gender they identify as. A fundamental part of that is being recognised by others as that gender. Gender neutral pronouns refuse to provide that acknowledgement.

3) They can be unfamiliar. Ultimately pronouns are something that, until recently, most people never actively thought about. Some people will reactively reject them as it puts into question their understanding of the world.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#653

Post by hoseja » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 11:56 AM UTC

labrador wrote: post #498

RankingMember wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was that awful seed pod boob photoshop image that did it to you too, wasn't it?

Awful doesn't even begin to describe those images. There's a another phobia transmitted by the internet, but I'm immune to it: Thalassophobia. There's even a reddit group dedicated to it: https://old.reddit.com/r/thalassophobia/ There's a group allegedly devoted to trypophobia. I say allegedly because I refuse to click on the link: https://old.reddit.com/r/trypophobia/

It is uncomfortable to swim in deep opaque water.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#654

Post by andelink » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 12:14 PM UTC

int_19h wrote: post #643

robotresearcher wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve often wondered why nobody say, talks about removing gendered pronouns altogether in formal speech instead of adding 50 new ones for instance. 'They' instead of 'he/she' is one of the things people actually use, and it's exactly dropping the gendered pronoun in favor of an existing neutral pronoun. It's strictly simpler and smaller language. My teenage kids use this construction a lot and I'm getting used to it…

It is, but some people specifically insist on "he" and "she" and will get offended if you use "they". In one such case, when I asked why "they" is inappropriate since it is by definition inclusive of all genders, the question itself was declared highly offensive and "erasing".

This floors me. Can I ask the context in which this person was offended by the use of “they?” Was it a work setting? Tell me more about this person

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#655

Post by DarkWiiPlayer » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 12:17 PM UTC

brnt wrote: post #651

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please share where you got those numbers from, I'm sure there's a good laugh to be had about how anybody got that "one third" figure. A minor side note: Stopping hormones does not mean someone has stopped transitioning or is detransitioning. It just means they've stopped taking hormones. Second side note: Detransitioning doesn't mean the person isn't trans either, it just means they've stopped transitioning. Third si…

These numbers are published by Dutch health authorities, and confirmed in the article at [1]. Nobody argues trans people should be stopped, but it is argued that mental healthcare preceding such a proces must be significantly improved. A lot of teens are transitioning, and their bad self image and self hate, inflamed by heavy social media use and the extremely well documented adverse effects on mental health of socia…

I'm not spending money on some pay-walled article in another language; and to be honest, I've seen enough """articles""" on this topic that I wouldn't trust them anyway and jump right to their actual sources.

Do you have any actual data to look at?

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#656

Post by baandam » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 12:56 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #487

boyanlevchev wrote: post #476

A freaky thing that this paper doesn’t mention is that in some cases these tics have gotten so extreme, that one patient began having almost constant seizures and became wheelchair-bound. Imagine being “infected” by watching a video on TikTok! It sounds like a horror movie. From The Guardian: “Over the next few weeks, Wacek noticed that she was having tics. “They were just little noises,” she says. “Nothing to write…

Yeah, I'm surprised on a forum like this people are using it as an opportunity to be like "ugh kids these days in $current_year seeking attention" and not "holy shit this is fascinating." Social media turned "picking up an accent" up to 11 in a way that actually manifests in tangible problems.

IMO the problem is that complex systems is not a field that is taken seriously yet. It got off to a bad start years back with that shitty James Gleick Chaos book.

We just don't have enough people thinking about this as a SIR model on a social graph to spark the conversation. We literally lack the critical mass of people understanding the language. Without the language the thoughts don't exist.

I am sure a 100 years from now people will look back at us as completely insane to be letting social contagions spread around to children as random graphs on a network.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#657

Post by baandam » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 1:18 PM UTC

reilly3000 wrote: post #203

This is alarmist BS. Facebook group fodder. “Humans have working mirror neurons” could have been the headline. All of you futurists who have slipped down the slope are worried about media spreading “sociogenic illness”. Of course media is powerful. It always has been. There has been about 75 years of fears and schemes about using TV to mass hypnotize its watchers. The same with radio before it. What is happening is m…

Exactly. The car is just a better version of the horse and buggy. There are no massive sociological changes that came from the invention of the automobile.

Human social behavior is completely scale invariant.

Society is just the relationship I have with my brother, replicated millions of times with no higher order effects, weird feedback loops, weird non-linear effects.

I am not buying that alarmist nonsense either.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#658

Post by ryanbrunner » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 1:20 PM UTC

causi wrote: post #616

ryanbrunner wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "you are whatever you think you are." You should do some reading on how gender affirming therapy and treatment works, because it is absolutely not standard to pursue treatment immediately without any process or consultation. Whether transition is the right option is absolutely explored, it's just explored in a way that allows the patient to come to a decision rather than a doctor making the gatekeeping whether this…

I said that's the societal paradigm, not the healthcare professional opinion. Doctors recognized the legitimacy of gender dysphoria long before society at large did. There are large numbers of self-diagnosed people and not an insignificant number of them are taking improvised or illicit hormone medications. In addition, many jurisdictions such as the UK are moving to make hormone therapy medications available over th…

I think it's a stretch to say that society at large approves of taking hormone treatments without consultation with medical professionals.

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#659

Post by GauntletWizard » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 1:35 PM UTC

autoexec wrote: post #623

GauntletWizard wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to control for that. We're looking at total outcomes, not individual points; it doesn't matter how it reaches the effect. Here's a proposition: Learning to make compromises and achieve partnership with your partner and growing into it is the behavior most associated with happiness of couples. Having removed the obvious necessity of it, we've created a society with much more focus on individual wants an…

> We can recognize that committed partnerships are healthy and encourage them without saying that any one individual is at fault if a relationship didn't work out. Do we really need to encourage happy, healthy, and successful committed partnerships? Don't most people desire that for themselves? We should probably avoid outright discouraging them, but I suspect that most people are wanting a good, happy, loving, relat…

Not encourage in the "rah rah, you should want this" sense, but in the "here's how to achieve this" sense - not running away is kinda key.

And it's become impossible to call out bad advice in the current climate. You can call out good advice as much as you want, because it's common wisdom, but any criticism of things that have been historically looked down upon as terrible ideas because they are is "punching down".

Re: It’s not Tourette’s but a new type of mass sociogenic illness

#660

Post by theGnuMe » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 1:35 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #590

theGnuMe wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That research is likely out of date.

Out of date does not necessarily mean wrong. If you want to challenge this result the burden is on you to cite some more recent work with different results.

You can simply google more recent things dude. You picked an article from 2001. Try 2021 or 2022. Clearly you have an agenda.

But here's a case report showing a reduction in tics after EMDR.

https://ijponline.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13052-...