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End of Japanese community

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Re: End of Japanese community

#641

Post by stackedinserter »

armada651 wrote: post #151
rtpg wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

long and slow consensus building that weighs existing stakeholder's opinions heavily vs doing "the right thing" from the outset. So you move slowly and end up having very annoying conversations and compromises instead of just pushing something through. And the formal process is just a formality anyways, so then anyone not in the informal chatter just gets to experience the capriciousness anyways The sort of consensus…

Move fast and break stuff didn't work out much better though.

But it does work much better, why do you think it didn't?

Re: End of Japanese community

#642

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

kstenerud wrote: post #369

I know that everyone has already given their opinions about what kinds of people are involved and their motivations, but this is really about two fallible humans, one listing grievances and another asking to open a communication channel. That's it. Anything else you read into this is going to be fraught with your own coloring based on a hundred words written in text (a notoriously difficult medium to establish emotio…

I know the above comment might sound like it's admonishing the commenters on HN for reading between the lines and posting criticism of Mozilla. That's understandable.

But actually the parent comment is merely a neutral and objective summary of the linked conversation, and a positive reminder that a video call is the best way to solve miscommunication. That's it.

If you think it's implying that HN's criticism of Mozilla's response is unjustified, that's reading too much into a 126-word comment and the unknowable motivations of the commenter.

(Am I doing this right?)

Re: End of Japanese community

#643

Post by neilv »

joseda-hg wrote: post #603
OvbiousError wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a very loud part of HN that strongly dislikes mozilla/firefox. It's disproportionate imo, I don't understand why they're singled out so often.

This feels like asking why do English people have strong opinions on soccer compared to the US? If there ever was a comunity I'd expect to have strong opinions on Mozilla/Firefox, it's HackerNews

Agreed, though I think that spectator-sports-fandom (if that's what you meant) analogy also has emotional team-identification connotations that don't apply to the majority of HN strong opinions about browsers. (But apply more to, say, Emacs vs. Vim, or tabs vs. spaces.)

I think lot of the HN browsers strong opinions more akin to "Why do historians have strong opinions on geopolitical intrigue X" or "Why do doctors have strong opinions on the effectiveness of pharmaceutical Y". Strong opinions, because they are experts who care for important objective reasons.

Re: End of Japanese community

#644

Post by move-on-by »

mns wrote: post #590
move-on-by wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the “I’m sorry you feel this way” response really irked me too. There are so many different ways to respond that would have been more appropriate and conveyed the same message.

The “I’m sorry you feel this way” is the first thing you learn from that HR workshop about communication when you get a promotion where you have to manage people. The thing is that having a lot of people working in corporate environments, where you constantly need to be political and backstab others to achieve some task you've been given, this is the norm, so for many this is normal, the type of stuff where they say:…

I understand this is corporate double-speak, trying to signal empathy without admitting any fault. But it’s the fact that it is double speak that is so irking. It might be appropriate in manger/subordinate/HR conversations - but in this context it just adds insult to injury (IMO).

Re: End of Japanese community

#645

Post by AlexandrB »

kstenerud wrote: post #395
whilenot-dev wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about communication though, it's about community. Mozilla just introduced a bot to overtake community efforts. > another asking to open a communication channel. The other person is asking to open a private communication channel. OT, but where is this reductionism-to-rationalize-trend coming from lately?

Community is also about communication. In fact, that's a primary aspect of a community. Yeah, Mozilla introduced a bot that's stomping on things. Are they malicious? Twirling neatly waxed mustaches as they cackle gleefully as the little ants scurry about in a panic? Or is this a case of humans doing what humans do: Screwing things up. The first step is to open communications, and the most effective form of communicat…

> Yeah, Mozilla introduced a bot that's stomping on things. Are they malicious? Twirling neatly waxed mustaches as they cackle gleefully as the little ants scurry about in a panic?

> Or is this a case of humans doing what humans do: Screwing things up.

Whatever else they might be, they're clearly out of touch. You'd have to be living under a rock to not realize that AI is controversial - especially in the more OSS/FSF parts of the internet - and rolling it out like a bulldozer is going to create outrage.

Re: End of Japanese community

#646

Post by SabrinaJewson »

surajrmal wrote: post #572
denkmoon wrote: post #250

Ladybird and other browser alternatives cannot come fast enough. Every other week we've got a thread here about some stupid move Mozilla have made, I can't remember the last time I heard positive news about Mozilla.

If ladybird becomes popular, it will see a similar segment of detractors as well. No product can appeal to everyone. This is why you need multiple options for different segments.

Well, Ladybird appears to be getting a headstart on having detractors.[0]

[0]: https://drewdevault.com/2025/09/24/2025-09-24-Cloudflare-and...

Re: End of Japanese community

#647

Post by crazygringo »

overfeed wrote: post #634
crazygringo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's probably a bunch of untranslated or badly translated content worldwide, so this was rolled out to help with that, without realizing it would overwrite higher-quality translation. It probably made a lot of sense in certain contexts, and certain side effects weren't predicted, or it just has bugs that need fixing. Presumably nothing malicious or stupid. But just ironing out the kinks.

> But just ironing out the kinks. "Ironing out the kinks" in production on live data is stupid.

All your production code has been entirely bug-free?

Nothing has ever gone wrong in production in ways that were fine on dev?

You've never written code to improve one metric, only to discover in prod it made another metric worse that nobody had considered?

How about a little humility for the ways in which we're all fallible and usually just trying to do our best?

Re: End of Japanese community

#648

Post by AlexandrB »

crazygringo wrote: post #531
ludwik wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstood what people are taking issue with. You explain that this matter is complicated and non-trivial - and yes, that’s exactly the point! People don’t have a problem with real-time communication via audio or video in general. They have a problem with the suggestion that it’s a trivial issue that can be easily fixed by "jumping on a quick call." The point about there being a "fairly in-depth" descr…

> it’s a trivial issue that can be easily fixed by "jumping on a quick call." Where are you getting this from? Nowhere is it suggested that a quick call will resolve it. You're inventing that. The actual text is: > Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. This is the first step towards fixing something. Understa…

It is dismissive.

"Your AI just deleted 20 years of my hard work"

"Let's hop on a quick call so we can truly understand what you're struggling with".

The response doesn't acknowledge the severity of the problem at all and the wording of "what you're struggling with" suggests that the original poster is somehow at fault (or too dumb) for "struggling" with Mozilla's terrible decisions.

This is the kind of reply you'd get if you contacted Dell tech support because your computer is not turning on.

Re: End of Japanese community

#649

Post by neilv »

hitarpetar wrote: post #540
matt89 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed but it feels like a lifetime ago. I miss those days where I would look up to google and their products, as something new, cool and "not-evil".

it's always been marketing

Maybe. But if the founders were at all pre-gold-rush Internet people, sentiments like "don't be evil" seemed (in my impression at the time) more the genuine norm than the exception.

Re: End of Japanese community

#650

Post by ToucanLoucan »

etruong42 wrote: post #536
elric wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe "open a communication channel" is what Mozilla should have done BEFORE they turned on this thing. This right here is the crux of the matter. But it seems to be how Mozilla operates. They frequently show a lack of awareness and consideration towards their long time supporters. I doubt this particular incident will lead to any changes, but I really wish they'd do some introspection...

This is an easy mistake in large organizations. Any project often already has so many stakeholders and politics that they are incentivized to avoid adding more stakeholders to the project if they are politically capable of doing so. Unless there is some sort of blowback, this sort of thing is likely to happen again to someone, and I understand how some people may not want to be involved anymore, and I understand how…

> This is an easy mistake in large organizations. Any project often already has so many stakeholders and politics that they are incentivized to avoid adding more stakeholders to the project if they are politically capable of doing so.

This person is already a stakeholder, you don't have a choice to add or not add them, you have a choice to include or not include them. And it's a gamble to not include them for this exact reason.

I'm all for keeping stakeholder counts as low as possible but you can't do it by just pretending some of your stakeholders don't exist, that's no good and in my experience, usually ends exactly like this.

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