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“How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

seymourhersh.substack.com

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Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#641

Post by GAN_Game »

beebmam wrote: post #614
GAN_Game wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> his claim that the US never killed Osama bin Laden You give a link but it is nowhere in that link. I watched an interview where Hersh talked about how the US killed bin Laden. Hersh has always said this. Hersh did do reporting that countered parts of the US government story about bin Laden. Namely the idea no high Pakistani army/intelligence/government official knew where bin Laden was in Pakistan. As well as some…

Seymour Hersh regarding the Osama bin Laden raid, in which the terrorist leader was killed in 2011: "Nothing's been done about that story, it's one big lie, not one word of it is true". Later on in 2013, he changed his claim, such that he admitted some of the story is true, that is, that the terrorist leader was killed, after he encountered pushback. Source: https://dailycaller.com/2013/09/27/hersh-slams-us-media-cla…

In an interview with the Guardian he said, as you quote "Nothing's been done about that story, it's one big lie, not one word of it is true".

You take this statement he made and translate it to "his claim that the US never killed Osama bin Laden". The original quote you print is much clearer. I certainly don't translate his quote to what you translated it to.

Speaking of changed claims, both the White House and New York Times walked back claims they made in 2011 about bin Laden. So Hersh's claim of "a lie" and "not true", if you want to call it that, is true by their own admissions.

Incidentally the disputed issues are did anyone high up in the Pakistani government know bin Laden was there, how did the US learn he was there (connected to the first point), was the firefight killing bin Laden a kind of John Wayne/Audie Murphy production or was it more pedestrian etc.

If it's not pedantic that Hersh telling the interviewer "not one word of it is true" was hyperbole, when at least one word of the White House story was true, then you have a point on that statement. But it still does not automatically translate as you said. The original statement is more clearly what he said.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#642

Post by auctoritas »

meepmorp wrote: post #627
auctoritas wrote: post #584

Who had the most incentive to blow it up? Definitely not Russia which was using it as significant leverage over the Europeans. Definitely not the Europeans who were relying on it for energy. That leaves the US, with willing help from accomplices of course. We can squabble about Hersh's credentials - no doubt to be dragged through the mud in the coming days as establishment types attempt to discredit him - but the bas…

> Definitely not Russia which was using it as significant leverage over the Europeans. There's still one pipe of NS2 left unscathed; Russia had offered to start delivering gas over this pipe, prior to the winter turning out to be incredibly mild. So the potential leverage is still there, and would perhaps have been useful had the climate cooperated. Maybe Russia took out three of four pipes just to ratchet up the sen…

Reducing the number of pipes reduced their leverage.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#643

Post by dang »

hoffs wrote: post #597
dang wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll read the article and reconsider. I haven't had time to even look at it yet. The moderation call here isn't based on agreeing, disagreeing, liking, or disliking. It just seems like an obvious interesting event, that's all. Edit: Ok, I've read the first half and looked over the second half, and I think the moderation call was the correct one. Not saying this to pile on; I just wanted to report back.

Try reading it instead of skimming

I read the first half and looked over the second half. Do you think I missed something that would change the moderation call here? If so, what?

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#644

Post by beebmam »

pessimizer wrote: post #638
beebmam wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seymour Hersh regarding the Osama bin Laden raid, in which the terrorist leader was killed in 2011: "Nothing's been done about that story, it's one big lie, not one word of it is true". Later on in 2013, he changed his claim, such that he admitted some of the story is true, that is, that the terrorist leader was killed, after he encountered pushback. Source: https://dailycaller.com/2013/09/27/hersh-slams-us-media-cla…

That quote doesn't say that the US didn't kill Bin Laden. You're implying that by adding an unnecessary parenthetical "in which the terrorist leader was killed in 2011." There's nothing simpler and better for your case than typing the quote where he said the thing you say he said. Otherwise, you're actively spreading misinformation on social media, and intentionally using rhetorical games to obscure the lack of evide…

Let me make sure I understand what you're saying here. You're saying that I'm spreading misinformation when I stated that: Seymour Hersh, with respect to an article about the Osama bin Laden raid, said that not a single word in it was true. He then later went on to admit that indeed, some of those words were true, that Osama bin Laden was indeed killed.

Would you be willing to explain how a strictly historical truth, that is, a direct quote from the individual in question, is misinformation?

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#645

Post by partiallypro »

LarryMullins wrote: post #215
partiallypro wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the only crazy conspiracy theory he has claimed in the past 10-20 years.

Project Azorian was a crazy conspiracy theory, and also true. You discredit yourself by using "conspiracy theory" in the "obviously false" sense. Intelligence agencies really do conspire to do things. That's their job.

a) that was never considered "crazy"

b) recovering a submarine is not the same as saying, actually Assad is an innocent bystander and the rebels gassed themselves, The CIA worked with Putin and Assad to undermine Obama...also US soldiers raped children and video recorded it, oh and let's not forget that the US planned to fake how OBL was killed in coordinate with Pakistan because stealth helicopters aren't possible (so how could the US fly below deck and get into Pakistan undetected!).

All claims by him, none with a lick of evidence.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#646

Post by pessimizer »

vasergen wrote: post #580
xg15 wrote: post #535

I find it extremely jarring how many reputable western media outlets immediately jumped to the conclusion that Russia did it even though that made zero sense - but absolutely refused to even consider the possibility that the US or another western state could have done it. But at this point, the article is basically "cool story, bro". The only independently verifyable bits are the public statements of Biden, Nuland, e…

> that Russia did it even though that made zero sense Can you explain then please how much sense did Russia had to start a war in Ukraine?

This is not a good faith question. If you wanted to know the arguments that Russia made regarding the invasion of Ukraine, you would have googled them sometime within the past year. What you want is for somebody to type those reasons here so you can respond to them with invective.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#647

Post by lamontcg »

lamontcg wrote: post #359
hef19898 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that a lot people came out after the pipeline was blown up, people with the necessary training and experience, saying that it was not a particularly difficult job, it might even have been some rogues having a fun fishing trip. Besides motive, this article doesn't provide anything new. And that the US had at least motive is established fact since basically the day of the explosion.

There's probably thousands of scuba divers are trained in cold water diving to 300ft/100m depths. That is deep technical diving, but not crazy or stupid deep.

(Although it would probably be easier these days to use a pipe bomb and a COTS underwater tethered drone -- depending on what bits of physical evidence you were comfortable leaving behind you could just blow the drone up with it too -- the "hardest" part would probably be dodging the coast guard on the surface)

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#648

Post by mzs »

edenceover wrote: post #374

> Today, the supreme commander of NATO is Jens Stoltenberg, a committed anti-communist, who served as Norway’s prime minister for eight years before moving to his high NATO post, with American backing, in 2014. He was a hardliner on all things Putin and Russia who had cooperated with the American intelligence community since the Vietnam War. He has been trusted completely since. “He is the glove that fits the America…

Thanks, Vietnam was over in '75, Stoltenberg was 16 then. It's just all so absurd.

Re: “How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

#649

Post by coffeebeqn »

rfoo wrote: post #119
erentz wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 are not just two pipelines. It's four total. The two pipelines of Nord Stream 1 were demolished. But only one of the pipelines of Nord Stream 2 was demolished, the second was untouched. https://www.dw.com/en/putin-offers-europe-gas-through-nord-s...

Without going meta, how about ... the bomb just didn't work?

Wouldn’t they have found an unexploded bomb by now?
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