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Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

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Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#641

Post by jleyank »

azinman2 wrote: post #608
junon wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehhh not sure about that. America doesn't have high taxes compared to many other places to live. This isn't as clear cut as I think you think it is.

Then you’re refuting the basic premise of the article, which is that the ultra wealthy want to avoid taxes. Why else would Eric Schmidt want to become a citizen of Cyprus, which then also allows him to live elsewhere in the EU? It’s certainly isn’t to end up laying more in taxes than he would in the US.

There is a real problem with the US-expst taxes when moving to a lower-taxed state... The difference is owed to the US and it's now a positive number.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#642

Post by skatkartoffel »

emodendroket wrote: post #332
simonh wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh well, that's alright then. As long as it's only successful people getting screwed I suppose we're good.

I mean, am I supposed to feel sorry for high-income people because they have to pay tax to continue to benefit from US citizenship and US embassies? I don't really, nor do I consider it getting "screwed." I think it is only fair that well-to-do expats should pay into the system like everybody else. If they don't want to, I welcome them to take the article's lead and give up their citizenship.

Serious question, what benefits do you think US citizenship and US embassies provide over and beyond what pretty much every other western country provides to their citizens?

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#643

Post by ghaff »

mellavora wrote: post #631
ghaff wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, while you could argue that the IRS should do pre-filled electronic returns, the reality is that if you have a W2 and a couple 1099s, doing your taxes is pretty straightfoward. As you say, it's more complex income sources and potentially deductions that lead to big accountant bills.

Or simply the fact of living overseas. And you mention 1099s, i.e. self employed. Well, if you run a sole proprietorship as an expat, you still have to file US self-employment tax forms, and there are also QUARTERLY filing requirements with penalties for non-filing. Or you need to get the paper certifying that your country has a totalization agreement with the US (not all do). And since 1099 isn't a thing in EU, you…

Sure. Yes, I was assuming a US citizen/resident working for an employer who has income from a few basic sources and is taking standard deduction--which actually describes a lot of people. (And I was mentioning 1099s mostly in the context of a brokerage account.)

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#644

Post by emodendroket »

ElFitz wrote: post #626
emodendroket wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who have complicated taxes also usually have complex income sources and generally higher incomes. If you just get your wage the tax forms are relatively straightforward. Being international complicates things but you'll notice people are talking about the headaches associated with running their businesses, capital gains, etc.

Well, I am glad to stand corrected. Most of my knowledge of it comes from all the threads about Intuit's and H&R Block's lobbying regarding what IRS could and could not do to simplify tax filling. If you don’t me asking. If it is as straightforward, what actually is the point in said lobbying?

Many people don't realize it's straightforward to fill out a 1040 form and assume they need to buy specialty software or go to a tax preparation place like H&R Block. Naturally they're not going to tell them otherwise.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#645

Post by rolleiflex »

anticristi wrote: post #632
rsstack wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imprecise but not incorrect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law#Dual_(o...

I heard rumours that this law is basically to put a thorn in the eye of Turkish immigrants minus what the EU does not allow. Is there any truth in this?

Yes, and Turkey moved to nullify this by creating a system in which if you are otherwise a valid Turkish citizen that has to give up because of a requirement from a foreign country like this, you can get on a special status in which you cannot vote, but have all the other privileges of Turkish citizenship. That status is not citizenship in theory, but practically you have everything as usual, and can participate in the Turkish social security, retirement, health system and all else. It’s called the blue card.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#646

Post by skatkartoffel »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #553
jarl-ragnar wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s an irony in there somewhere given the original motivation for the “Boston Tea Party”. No taxation without representation.

Americans can vote overseas though

Not all of them and even if you are eligible to vote, some states make it nearly impossible to request a ballot. I’ve been removed from the registry multiple times and had to fill out an emergency ballot which didn’t even get counted in the 2016 election.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#647

Post by Muromec »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #550
aarchi wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Germany also requires that you surrender other citizenships when you get a German citizenship, unless you are a German dual citizen through ancestry.

Doesn't the Netherlands do this as well? As a Canadian I think not allowing dual citizenship might solve a lot of issues with both the very rich and the very poor.

Unless you marry a citizen or get citizenship by option , you have to surrender previous one.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#648

Post by masklinn »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #553
jarl-ragnar wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s an irony in there somewhere given the original motivation for the “Boston Tea Party”. No taxation without representation.

Americans can vote overseas though

“No taxation without representation” does not imply “no representation without taxation”.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#649

Post by robocat »

mljoe wrote: post #388
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, Israel goes to extremely great lengths extracting its citizens in trouble (search Operation Entebbe), and no, they don't charge you any taxes if you reside permanently abroad.

You don't have to go that far back. See the recent Surfside tragedy. Israel sent an elite rescue team and set up relief centers to assist displaced persons, regardless if they were Israeli or not.

“Casualties have been disproportionately Jewish because about a third of Surfside residents are Jewish.”

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#650

Post by AdrianB1 »

emodendroket wrote: post #565
bmn__ wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Faulty assumption; Americans who live abroad do not benefit from the US system: social security/disability/retirement, health programs, military, public infrastructure etc. pp. is provided by the country where they live.

Does the country where they live run the embassy too and I just never knew about it?

They should not pay taxes in full to get 1% of the benefits.
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