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Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

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Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#641

Post by RankingMember »

btilly wrote: post #594
jeffdavis wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a leader in many respects, due largely to our Constitutionally-protected rights. I'm not a fan of the US prison system. But are you seriously claiming that the whole justice system is worse than Venezuela or Honduras?

Our Constitutionally protected rights??? Amendment 1: Why is "In God We Trust" on our money? Amendment 3: The only time it ever was litigated (in Engblom v. Carey ) the government won because a bureaucrat cannot be faulted for not knowing such an obscure law. Amendment 4: Have you seen what the NSA is doing? Also "unreasonable search and seizure" is, under the doctrine of civil forfeiture, perfectly permissible as lo…

> Amendment 7: The point of a jury trial is that the jury can choose not to enforce a bad law. The legal system misinforms jurors about this to keep jury trial from being meaningful.

I lean in favor of the practice of jury nullification, but I can't see how you can make the argument that juries exist expressly to judge good vs bad laws.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#642

Post by jacquesm »

pixelbash wrote: post #622
chrisco255 wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is LAX really that bad? I haven't been there in years, but this seems a bit egregious. What terrifies you? The long lines at the bathroom? The food court selection? The lack of charging ports?

What really put us off was arriving after a long haul to a queue that filled the immigration hall, then proceeding to wait for two hours while the three desks (out of about 12) tried to process about three flights worth of people. That and the shoes thing, most other places don't have that. It all may have changed, but until I hear otherwise (or that the TSA have decided to calm down) I'm happy with my choice. Edit:…

Somewhere around the twin cities a guy from the TSA is wearing my boots. Try buying shoes at 06:30 in the morning... Last time I ever flew to/through the USA.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#643

Post by jacquesm »

seppin wrote: post #632
pixelbash wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in New Zealand with family in the UK. I have spent the last 10 years flying the other way around the planet instead of via LA because the airports are worse than places like Malaysia. I can't speak to living in the USA but I have lived in Milawe and Fiji, and honestly being poor is definitely bad but some of the stuff happening in the US is a whole other kind of dystopian terrifying.

Are you honestly basing your opinion of a country on an airport?

Airports and customs are the face of a nation to most of the travelers that visit, the first point of contact and as such they leave a lasting impression. Think of them as ambassadors. If that first experience is a bad one that will reflect on what people think about the rest of the country.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#644

Post by raxxorrax »

ckastner wrote: post #318
k1m wrote: post #35

Worth mentioning that Nils Melzer, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, visited Assange and described his treatment as psychological torture: > “It was obvious that Mr. Assange’s health has been seriously affected by the extremely hostile and arbitrary environment he has been exposed to for many years,” the expert said. “Most importantly, in addition to physical ailments, Mr. Assange showed all symptoms typical for…

You quote: > “Mr. Assange has been deliberately exposed, for a period of several years, to progressively severe forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, the cumulative effects of which can only be described as psychological torture.“ That quote lacked information on who was exposing him and what that exposure actually was, so I followed your source. That source elaborates as follows: > “In the co…

Why would you think that? He helped putting light on war crimes and got the obvious political prosecution. I don't think downplaying this fact is in any way adequate. And I don't think this is hyperbole at all if you look at the big picture.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#645

Post by raxxorrax »

mcv wrote: post #391
k1m wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how to respond to this. UN experts on human rights have looked into his situation and been quite alarmed by it. I can't think of a group of people more respected in the field of human rights than the experts at the UN. And yet there are commenters here on HN who, I don't know on what basis, write that it's all mostly "hyperbole".

It is mostly self-inflicted, though. He chose that exile over facing justice for these charges. And calling systemic judicial prosecution "torture" is most certainly hyperbole. It's the job of the judicial system to prosecute people who break the law, and it's definitely better if they do so in a systemic rather than arbitrary way. So while it's entirely possible that Assange shows symptoms of torture, the question r…

> And calling systemic judicial prosecution "torture" is most certainly hyperbole

This is 1A 100% political persecution if you don't close both your eyes.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#646

Post by alfromspace »

cannabis_sam wrote: post #616
DubiousPusher wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If she finds his treatment report worthy she should visit almost any county jail in America and write a report. I'm seriously not being flippant. If people genuinely find this kind of treatment disturbing and inhumane then they should know it is befalling daily many of their over 2 million incarcerated American brothers and sisters.

The US ”justice” system has replaced justice with vengeance and punishment with suffering..

Those who cause the innocent to suffer deserve vengeance and suffering. Why are we so concerned about the comfort of people who, the majority of the time, are in prison for violent crime?

Before someone brings up "muh drugs" and only cites stats from federal prisons...

"In 2011, 55.6% of the 1,131,210 sentenced prisoners in state prisons were being held for violent crimes (this number excludes the 200,966 prisoners being held due to parole violations, of which 39.6% were re-incarcerated for a subsequent violent crime).[44] Also in 2011, 3.7% of the state prison population consisted of prisoners whose highest conviction was for drug possession (again excluding those incarcerated for parole violations of which 6.0% were re-incarcerated for a subsequent act of drug possession).[44]"

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#647

Post by Jedd »

blattimwind wrote: post #364
DubiousPusher wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If she finds his treatment report worthy she should visit almost any county jail in America and write a report. I'm seriously not being flippant. If people genuinely find this kind of treatment disturbing and inhumane then they should know it is befalling daily many of their over 2 million incarcerated American brothers and sisters.

The US justice system is possibly the most cruel justice system in the West, and by quite a margin, too. It is one of a few aspects in which the US is far closer to today's developing and third world countries than to the Western average. Also over many decades many organizations have called out the conditions in parts of the US justice system as torture(-like).

> The US justice system is possibly the most cruel justice system in the West ...

This suggests a terminology issue -- we have the same problem here in Australia.

If you assume the system is intended to mete out justice, little of it will make sense.

If you think of it as a legal system, and consider it's working precisely as its benefactors & maintainers want, the arrangement makes much more sense.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#648

Post by monkeycantype »

jki275 wrote: post #488
paulmd wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Largely because people have roots here and it's a pain to move. What, you're supposed to quit your job, leave your extended family, sell your house and possessions, find a new job and place to live overseas, and potentially even learn an entire new language? Just to be sure you won't be tortured? (assuming you can even find a place to take you - things are easier here for this crowd, tech skills are in-demand and usu…

It's not a 1% chance. Even if one accepts your definition of torture, people who aren't criminals are very rarely caught up in the system at all. So it's far less than 1% as long as you're simply not a criminal. If the US were really so bad, people would leave. The people who do leave typically leave for tax purposes opposite to your belief.

I've had US police pull guns on me several times, thrown to the ground have been arrested and jailed overnight, despite not having committed a crime on any of the occasions. My transgression in each case was to have not learnt the submission rituals that American police expect, the whole stay in your car with you hands on the wheel, the yes sir, yes mam.

One of these times was on a late night Santa Cruz to SF drive, my friend and I got too tired to drive and slept on the beach near McNee Ranch state park, in the middle of being arrested, with five guns drawn, one officer said - this is verbatim 'That's a north face jacket, I don't think this guy is homeless. Are you Homeless?' and just like that I was restored to full white privileges and the arrest was off.

I don't think changing law enforcement is easy, I believe law enforcement reflects the power relationships of society - you won't change law enforcement with out changing the society in which it exists.

I love California, it broke my heart to leave, I'll never really know if I made the right decision, and I'm pretty sure if I didn't have four kids I'd be back there.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#649

Post by pixelbash »

seppin wrote: post #632
pixelbash wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in New Zealand with family in the UK. I have spent the last 10 years flying the other way around the planet instead of via LA because the airports are worse than places like Malaysia. I can't speak to living in the USA but I have lived in Milawe and Fiji, and honestly being poor is definitely bad but some of the stuff happening in the US is a whole other kind of dystopian terrifying.

Are you honestly basing your opinion of a country on an airport?

Well, not quite. I also spent some time in LA on a different trip. It was a while ago (so not an adult perspective) but mostly I remember walking through carparks and hundreds of channels with nothing to watch. Seattle was a bit nicer as a place.

I would like to go back some time, just not right now.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#650

Post by alfromspace »

btilly wrote: post #594
jeffdavis wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a leader in many respects, due largely to our Constitutionally-protected rights. I'm not a fan of the US prison system. But are you seriously claiming that the whole justice system is worse than Venezuela or Honduras?

Our Constitutionally protected rights??? Amendment 1: Why is "In God We Trust" on our money? Amendment 3: The only time it ever was litigated (in Engblom v. Carey ) the government won because a bureaucrat cannot be faulted for not knowing such an obscure law. Amendment 4: Have you seen what the NSA is doing? Also "unreasonable search and seizure" is, under the doctrine of civil forfeiture, perfectly permissible as lo…

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"

Stop preaching fake constitutionalism. You don't understand what you're talking about. Congress isn't establishing a federal religion by putting "In God We Trust" on money. This edgy internet atheism is getting old.

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