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Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

bbc.com

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Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#361

Post by dwoozle »

duxup wrote: post #134
k1m wrote: post #35

Worth mentioning that Nils Melzer, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, visited Assange and described his treatment as psychological torture: > “It was obvious that Mr. Assange’s health has been seriously affected by the extremely hostile and arbitrary environment he has been exposed to for many years,” the expert said. “Most importantly, in addition to physical ailments, Mr. Assange showed all symptoms typical for…

I find the idea of the threat of prosecution in a free country as a form of "torture" a bit questionable. It's something, but i'm not sure I agree with calling that torture.

What is a “free country” in your definition?

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#362

Post by isostatic »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #147
isostatic wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So he was free to leave, but would then face Swedish justice, which is the 4th best in the world [0], just behind Denmark, Norway and Sweden. [0] http://data.worldjusticeproject.org/#

After which he would be extradited to the US...

Why the charade of Sweden? Why not extradite him direct from the UK, which is far further down the list of good justice systems

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#363

Post by solipsism »

authoritarian wrote: post #141
solipsism wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either there's a rule of law or there's not. You can't hide from the police and then claim that the very act of hiding is an act of torture enacted on you by the police.

[flagged]

Part of the rule of law is that laws must be just and impartial. The laws and actions of the Third Reich obviously did not have that quality.

The two situations aren't remotely comparable. But you probably know that, you're just trolling.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#364

Post by blattimwind »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #340
ckastner wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You quote: > “Mr. Assange has been deliberately exposed, for a period of several years, to progressively severe forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, the cumulative effects of which can only be described as psychological torture.“ That quote lacked information on who was exposing him and what that exposure actually was, so I followed your source. That source elaborates as follows: > “In the co…

If she finds his treatment report worthy she should visit almost any county jail in America and write a report. I'm seriously not being flippant. If people genuinely find this kind of treatment disturbing and inhumane then they should know it is befalling daily many of their over 2 million incarcerated American brothers and sisters.

The US justice system is possibly the most cruel justice system in the West, and by quite a margin, too. It is one of a few aspects in which the US is far closer to today's developing and third world countries than to the Western average. Also over many decades many organizations have called out the conditions in parts of the US justice system as torture(-like).

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#365

Post by k1m »

ckastner wrote: post #318
k1m wrote: post #35

Worth mentioning that Nils Melzer, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, visited Assange and described his treatment as psychological torture: > “It was obvious that Mr. Assange’s health has been seriously affected by the extremely hostile and arbitrary environment he has been exposed to for many years,” the expert said. “Most importantly, in addition to physical ailments, Mr. Assange showed all symptoms typical for…

You quote: > “Mr. Assange has been deliberately exposed, for a period of several years, to progressively severe forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, the cumulative effects of which can only be described as psychological torture.“ That quote lacked information on who was exposing him and what that exposure actually was, so I followed your source. That source elaborates as follows: > “In the co…

I don't know how to respond to this. UN experts on human rights have looked into his situation and been quite alarmed by it. I can't think of a group of people more respected in the field of human rights than the experts at the UN. And yet there are commenters here on HN who, I don't know on what basis, write that it's all mostly "hyperbole".

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#366

Post by wang_li »

pluma wrote: post #65
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your definition of sexual assault is dangerously lacking in nuance. Most people who have had long term sexual partners have had a time or two where they "didn't really want to participate" but did anyway without much/any complaining for the sake of their partner. Are all all those instances "basically sexual assault"? Watering down the definition of sexual assault to include instances where nobody felt assaulted in a…

Spousal rape and sexual abuse were legal in many places for a long time (and still are in some), doesn't make it not rape and sexual abuse, though. "Informed enthusiastic consent" isn't so hard to figure out, is it? If you feel like you're being pressured into something you don't want, that's still non-consensual even if you don't put up a fight.

Voluntarily doing something you’re not excited about is different than having something done to you you don’t want done. It’s not kidnapping if I agree to go with my wife to visit her sister. It is rape if I agree to sex with a condom but the other party removes it. It’s also rape if I agree to sex with someone and then they engage in sex a second time while I am asleep hours later.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#367

Post by shadowgovt »

dependenttypes wrote: post #329
mariorossi666 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't steal online data. You can only copy it that's stealing a document in anyone's book. > Exposed crimes against the constitution by the government and the military to the peopl You're arguing with me, but I agree with you, I'm simply saying that a military court said that. That's why I said technically. The law is all about technicalities. Manning wore a uniform, she was subject to court-martial, and court-…

> that's stealing a document in anyone's book. It would certainly be stealing if she deleted the documents in the server afterwards, which she did not. Stealing implies that the original is gone in everyday speech. Most people would be very upset if you stole their car, not so much if you copied it. > I'm simply saying that a military court said that. You might want to edit your previous post then. From "technically…

> Stealing implies that the original is gone in everyday speech.

"Data theft" is understood to mean illicit copying, with no assumption that originals were destroyed. In everyday speech, "stealing data" implies unauthorized copies.

There are advantages to controlling the terminology in a narrative, but the ship has sailed on this one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_theft

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#368

Post by asdernr »

shadowgovt wrote: post #258
k1m wrote: post #35

Worth mentioning that Nils Melzer, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, visited Assange and described his treatment as psychological torture: > “It was obvious that Mr. Assange’s health has been seriously affected by the extremely hostile and arbitrary environment he has been exposed to for many years,” the expert said. “Most importantly, in addition to physical ailments, Mr. Assange showed all symptoms typical for…

I would believe he's exhibiting symptoms correlated with torture victims, but most torture victims don't choose to stay in the torture chamber voluntarily. Assange sought and was granted asylum and could have ended the torturous circumstances at any time by rendering himself to UK custody.

Yah. Then get send over to US and A and killed. Checkmate

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#369

Post by mariorossi666 »

dependenttypes wrote: post #329
mariorossi666 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't steal online data. You can only copy it that's stealing a document in anyone's book. > Exposed crimes against the constitution by the government and the military to the peopl You're arguing with me, but I agree with you, I'm simply saying that a military court said that. That's why I said technically. The law is all about technicalities. Manning wore a uniform, she was subject to court-martial, and court-…

> that's stealing a document in anyone's book. It would certainly be stealing if she deleted the documents in the server afterwards, which she did not. Stealing implies that the original is gone in everyday speech. Most people would be very upset if you stole their car, not so much if you copied it. > I'm simply saying that a military court said that. You might want to edit your previous post then. From "technically…

> It would certainly be stealing if she deleted the documents in the server afterwards, which she did not

Again, not a lawyer, not trying to counter you personally, but if someone clones my credit card and take money from it, it is stealing, even if the card is still in my pocket.

If someone use my bank's password to transfer funds to his account, it is stealing, even if my account is still in my possess.

> "The military court claims that she stole classified documents and betrayed her country that she swore to protect"

That translates to "technically she stole classified documents and betrayed her country that she swore to protect."

because that's what a court does, it establish the facts, unless we prove the court-martial framed Mannings for something she did not do.

If I'm sentenced by a court for fraud, it means I committed fraud, unless I prove the court is wrong.

Saying "the court says that X did that" and "X did that" it's the same thing.

> which is to unfairly punish whistle-blowers and give lighter punishments to war criminals

I agree it is unfair, but the military know how it is, it's not something special to Mannings's case.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#370

Post by StanislavPetrov »

jimbokun wrote: post #172
colejohnson66 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the old “he was free to leave anytime” argument. No. He wasn’t. Yes, technically, he was free to leave, but arguing that is ignoring the fact that leaving would mean jail. It’s victim blaming. Would you say a victim of Stockholm Syndrome is “free to leave at any time”? No, because that’s a ridiculous argument. Would you say Snowden is “free to leave [Russia] at any time”? No! So why is it an acceptable argument w…

"Yes, technically, he was free to leave, but arguing that is ignoring the fact that leaving would mean jail." Didn't it mean he would be free to stand trial for the rape allegations? Do those women not have a right to have their case heard?

>Didn't it mean he would be free to stand trial for the rape allegations?

No, there were never any charges filed against Julian Assange in Sweden. He was wanted for "questioning" by a Swedish prosecutor in a case that has now been entirely dropped due to a complete lack of substance. Assange's assertion was that this Swedish investigation was created entirely as a pretense to seize him and ship him to the United States for his activities as a publisher (an assertion that has proven to be true given his current status). There was nothing preventing the Swedish prosecutor from questioning Assange in the UK - they have traveled abroad to question subjects of other investigations in the past.

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