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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#631

Post by zkry »

boringg wrote: post #223
xg15 wrote: post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

While this is a good development. Everything in this part of the world is on a rinse snd repeat cycle ever since the Assyrians and the Babylonians - it hasn't changed much except maybe its actually a little more humane then it was in the past (which says something). Sorry for the cynical take but this just does a temporary stop.

> Everything in this part of the world is on a rinse snd repeat cycle ever since the Assyrians and the Babylonians

That's an incredible statement, as if the rest of the world is somehow different. The only thing special about these regions is that they've had complex states for longer, so of course state-based warfare would go back farther.

On another level, there absolutely have been periods of stability in regions of the middle east, for periods of time we would consider long.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#632

Post by mysecretaccount »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #548
hmcq6 wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Conservative figures show that more than 6,000 women and 11,000 children were killed in Gaza by the Israeli military over the last 12 months. https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/more-women-and-child... Edit: also that's not war, thats war crimes

11,000 is not “tens of thousands.” It’s a horrible number. But horrible doesn’t mean numbers are meaningless. > that's not war, thats war crimes It’s both. And unfortunately, it’s the variety of war crime that’s essentially normalised to modern urban warfare. (Especially if one side hides its assets among civilians.) The only war crimes we seem to hold others to account on are WMD ones, and even then it seems there’s…

> 11,000 is not “tens of thousands.” It’s a horrible number. But horrible doesn’t mean numbers are meaningless.

The 11,000 figure the other poster cited is the approximate number of children that have been killed whose death was been identified and linked with a name by the Gaza Health Ministry in September. GHM was part of a barely functional government before 10/7 and now is part of a barely functional government in a war zone. The actual figure is significantly higher, but with a wide confidence interval: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/14/health/gaza-death-toll.ht...

Tens of thousands is not an understatement. Numbers are not meaningless, indeed.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#633

Post by hackerknew »

robertoandred wrote: post #325
Supermancho wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has a bunch of land that is politically and practically simpler to annex, than before. Israel is more secure by far, knowing that the US will continue to fund them even in the face of being convicted of humanitarian crimes.

If Israel wanted Gaza, they wouldn’t have given it up twenty years ago.

Israeli leadership in 2006 gave up Gaza and forcefully evicted thousands of Jewish people in what was supposed to be an exchange for peace. That was supposed to be the end of the rockets and the attacks.

In case you are not aware, the exact opposite happened.

To be clear, we very much do want Gaza. We had homes there. and we have Jewish roots there going back long before the time of today’s Palestinian colonists.

Above all of that though, is that we want peace. And so if we have to be patient for a time when we can peacefully live in Gaza again, we will be patient.

In the meantime, the most important thing is the safe return of loved ones who were taken hostage on October 7th (and before!) and safety for those living in rocket’s range of Gaza.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#634

Post by wqaatwt »

slt2021 wrote: post #584
wqaatwt wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Zionists are capable of establishing and running a democratic state (however flawed according to some it might be). It would be silly to pretend that’s even remotely close to being an option for Hamas. For starters modern Islamic fundamentalism is inherently incompatible with democracy (amongst other reasons). Expecting that organizations like Hamas could somehow magically change for the better is pure madness…

Zionists are perfectly capable of subverting and terrorizing their way and murdering those who oppose them. you know it was radical jewish terrorist who murdered yitzhak rabin, who tried to make peace with palestinians? it was mossad, who helped finance and support Hamas, so that moderate PLO could never make progress on unified palestinian state?

Well yes extremist radical Zionists are about on the same level as moderate Islamic fundamentalists. That’s kind of the problem..

> yitzhak rabin

So you wouldn’t consider him a Zionist then?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#635

Post by edanm »

rastignack wrote: post #492
xg15 wrote: post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

> undermining democratic structures Democratic structures like fatah and hamas ?

> Democratic structures like fatah and hamas ?

This refers (I imagine) to internal Israeli politics - a certain portion of the Israeli populace fears that Netanyahu is attempting to make Israel less democratic by various means. This was a topic that caused mass protests in Israel before October 7th, and continues in some form even now.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#636

Post by mysecretaccount »

tptacek wrote: post #541
mysecretaccount wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose if we are to digress to the land of "shoulds", Israel should not have decided to delete tens of thousands of Gazan children in the interim. Even if we grant that Israel offered this ceasefire deal in good faith in May, a bungled deal by Qatar/Egypt/Hamas does nothing to justify the ethnic cleansing they conducted in 2024.

I'm not making a moral argument.

"[Hamas] should have taken the deal when it was first offered [because this list of people died afterward]" sure sounds like a moral argument to me.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#637

Post by southernplaces7 »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #621
reissbaker wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plurality of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi (aka, Jews who never left the Middle East), at 45% of the population [1]. This isn't about Europeans, or even "race": Mizrahi Jews and their Palestinian neighbors are racially indistinguishable. Ashkenazi Jews — that is, Jews who lived in Europe during the Diaspora — make up less than a third of Israeli Jews. [2] Although if you're dead-set on racial essentialism and blood-an…

It's not about race, but it is about the invention of a country that relies on specific demographics to exist (majority Jewish) which necessitate keeping millions of people stateless yet under the full control of an elite ethnicity who actually have the votes and the control. And no matter where Jewish people are from, they are that privileged ethnicity. The Arabs in Israel get token rights (but you and I both know i…

[flagged]

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#638

Post by codethief »

ChocolateGod wrote: post #69
ars wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israeli's are (not that they think it was worth it), Gazan's are not. This war severely weakened Iran, Iran's proxies (Lebanon/Hezbollah, and Syria) and also interestingly Russia. Gazan's now have a ruined country with exactly nothing to show for it. Depending on how you interpret it, this war was actually a good thing for Lebanon (they have a government for the first time in years), and Syria who finally overthrew t…

> Syria who finally overthrew their sadistic monster. Not saying Assad wasn't a sadistic monster, but do you really think an ISIS-related group running the state is going to be any better? Christians are already being persecuted.

> Christians are already being persecuted.

Do you have a source for that?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#639

Post by tptacek »

mysecretaccount wrote: post #636
tptacek wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not making a moral argument.

"[Hamas] should have taken the deal when it was first offered [because this list of people died afterward]" sure sounds like a moral argument to me.

I couldn't possibly have given less of a fuck whether Hassan Nasrallah drew another breath; the point is that Hamas and all the regional forces backing it were drastically compromised and/or reduced to their combustion products in the months that followed their May 27 rejection, and they are in much worse shape today. They should have taken the deal in May.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#640

Post by bgnn »

sammy2255 wrote: post #559

How long before Hamas start shooting rockets indiscriminately into Israel again

That's the normal during peace periods, no? Hamas does what hamas does, IDF does what IDF does. Unless there's a permanent solution this conflict will keep getting active. Looking at the state of affairs, there will to be no end to occupation and apartheid from Israel. Feeble PA will not gain more political capital all of a sudden. Hamas made themselves a pariah with October 7 attacks. All parties will race to the bottom it seems. Palestinians and Israelis will keep suffering.
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