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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#541

Post by tptacek »

mysecretaccount wrote: post #524
tptacek wrote: post #350

Hamas was offered a ceasefire under exactly the same terms in May, and refused it. Since then: * Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of the Hamas political wing, was killed in Tehran * Yahyah Sinwar, the leader of the Al-Qassam Brigades, was killed in Gaza * Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Lebanese Hezbollah, was killed in Beirut * Hashem Safieddine, Nasrallah's successor, was killed a week later * Large swathes of Hezbollah'…

I suppose if we are to digress to the land of "shoulds", Israel should not have decided to delete tens of thousands of Gazan children in the interim. Even if we grant that Israel offered this ceasefire deal in good faith in May, a bungled deal by Qatar/Egypt/Hamas does nothing to justify the ethnic cleansing they conducted in 2024.

I'm not making a moral argument.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#542

Post by nthingtohide »

gunian wrote: post #408
Workaccount2 wrote: post #39

So I suppose it's just back to the status quo? What has really changed that will make a difference in 2-3 years from now? Israel has sowed a whole fresh generation of "I will sacrifice everything to wipe Israel" Palestinian youth.

nothing this is the life of pawns has been will continue to be until humans evolve which won't be until eons from now

This Land Is Mine by Nina Paley.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIdCsMufIY

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#543

Post by narrator »

gravisultra wrote: post #307
emchammer wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the Torah count for something? It works slower than fiber optics but is massively parallel.

No, that's mythology. Actual history is The Balfour Declaration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration And Nakba: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba

I think the Israeli and Palestinian authorities would let atheists decide their problems as long as they agree with what they want, baring that, your argument probably isn't going to land with any of them on its merits, especially if it calls their religions "mythology."

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#544

Post by sabarn01 »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #39

So I suppose it's just back to the status quo? What has really changed that will make a difference in 2-3 years from now? Israel has sowed a whole fresh generation of "I will sacrifice everything to wipe Israel" Palestinian youth.

The problem is unsolvable. You have two sets of people with sets of claims on the same land. Both sides have an unshakable resolve that they are in the right and nothing is going to change that.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#545

Post by hmcq6 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #535
mysecretaccount wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose if we are to digress to the land of "shoulds", Israel should not have decided to delete tens of thousands of Gazan children in the interim. Even if we grant that Israel offered this ceasefire deal in good faith in May, a bungled deal by Qatar/Egypt/Hamas does nothing to justify the ethnic cleansing they conducted in 2024.

[flagged]

> Conservative figures show that more than 6,000 women and 11,000 children were killed in Gaza by the Israeli military over the last 12 months.

https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/more-women-and-child...

Edit: also that's not war, thats war crimes

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#546

Post by mrighele »

slt2021 wrote: post #485
robertoandred wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going to pretend that Jews haven’t lived there for thousands and thousands of years, before the Arabs arrived?

there are several flaws in your typical zionist argument: 1. jews as a minority have lived in the lands of Filistine and Jerusalem peacefully and coexisted just fine for millennia, before the zionist project. 2. the fact that small minority of jews lived there does not give an excuse to ethnically cleanse the local population of arabs. 3. the claim that modern european jews from Rhine and pale of settlement (AshkeNaz…

[flagged]

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#547

Post by tptacek »

hmcq6 wrote: post #545
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Conservative figures show that more than 6,000 women and 11,000 children were killed in Gaza by the Israeli military over the last 12 months. https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/more-women-and-child... Edit: also that's not war, thats war crimes

[flagged]

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#548

Post by JumpCrisscross »

hmcq6 wrote: post #545
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Conservative figures show that more than 6,000 women and 11,000 children were killed in Gaza by the Israeli military over the last 12 months. https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/more-women-and-child... Edit: also that's not war, thats war crimes

11,000 is not “tens of thousands.” It’s a horrible number. But horrible doesn’t mean numbers are meaningless.

> that's not war, thats war crimes

It’s both. And unfortunately, it’s the variety of war crime that’s essentially normalised to modern urban warfare. (Especially if one side hides its assets among civilians.)

The only war crimes we seem to hold others to account on are WMD ones, and even then it seems there’s a pass for chemical weapons.

I hate this. But I’m contextualising the figure. Anyone going to war in the Levant racks up those numbers. Including if the Palestinians got UN approval to conquer Israel. The difference between these unfortunately common war crimes and “regular” war is the difference between tens of thousands and 11,000.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#549

Post by malandrew »

robertoandred wrote: post #325
Supermancho wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has a bunch of land that is politically and practically simpler to annex, than before. Israel is more secure by far, knowing that the US will continue to fund them even in the face of being convicted of humanitarian crimes.

If Israel wanted Gaza, they wouldn’t have given it up twenty years ago.

My understanding is that there's been renewed interest in building the Ben Gurion Canal proposed by Howard D. MacCabee in 1963.

https://www.osti.gov/opennet/servlets/purl/453701.pdf

Google's Ngram viewer isn't working for the term "Ben Gurion Canal" for some reason, but it would show approximately when renewed interest started getting traction since the proposal was declassified in 1996.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 2021 Evergreen fiasco was contributory to this renewed interest but this is pure speculation on my part.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#550

Post by littlestymaar »

tptacek wrote: post #350

Hamas was offered a ceasefire under exactly the same terms in May, and refused it. Since then: * Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of the Hamas political wing, was killed in Tehran * Yahyah Sinwar, the leader of the Al-Qassam Brigades, was killed in Gaza * Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Lebanese Hezbollah, was killed in Beirut * Hashem Safieddine, Nasrallah's successor, was killed a week later * Large swathes of Hezbollah'…

While that's indeed true that all these people were monsters, for the record this deal wasn't only rejected by Hama's but by Netanyahu himself as well. The key difference here is that Trump put pressure on him when Bidden always refused to do so.
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