Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

631–640 of 877 posts

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#631

Post by jackcosgrove »

stcredzero wrote: post #461
nimbius wrote: post #98

This is anecdotal and it might come across as bitter and tonedeaf as someone who is not in a STEM job and cant see the bigger picture very well. Im a diesel engine tech who repairs those big trucks carrying food and shit tickets to grocery stores. the fact that ANY market is completely detached from whats actually happening to Americans is frustrating. My job just cut benefits and hours but we're "essential." Remembe…

This is anecdotal and it might come across as bitter and tonedeaf as someone who is not in a STEM job and cant see the bigger picture very well. Im a diesel engine tech who repairs those big trucks carrying food and shit tickets to grocery stores. the fact that ANY market is completely detached from whats actually happening to Americans is frustrating This is something I see from coverage of "lock-down protesters." T…

It's even worse because the lockdowns hurt young people economically for the sake of the health of the elderly. The lockdowns are financed by debt which will be paid by the young. The young are also probably much poorer and browner than the elderly.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#632

Post by WillPostForFood »

dragonwriter wrote: post #579
at-fates-hands wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the richest 10% of americans own 84% of all stock. The top 20% of earners also handle close to 90% of the tax burden, while close to 50% of the population pay nothing in taxes.

> The top 20% of earners also handle close to 90% of the tax burden, Only if you only count the income taxes, and ignore other (mostly regressive) payroll, excise/sales, and other taxes at the federal and state levels.

Including all those taxes, the top 20% still pay 66% of all taxes.

https://theintercept.imgix.net/wp-uploads/sites/1/2019/04/ch...

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#633

Post by sudosysgen »

standardUser wrote: post #523
sudosysgen wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice, none of them would actually have implemented it, except the only one with a history of going against party and lobby. Barack Obama ran far to the left of Barack Obama, but ended up compromising with Republicans for some absurd reason as he held both the house and senate, to the degree where he passed Mitt Romney's proposal while dragging his feet. None of them except for Bernie Sanders was willing to rec…

"none of them would actually have implemented it, except the only one with a history of going against party and lobby" Why would the person with few allies and hostile relations with various power players be the one who could "actually" implement anything? Barack Obama had a senate majority that Bernie would have killed for in his hypothetical first term, but Obama still couldn't get his own party to even consider a…

Because the presidency is vastly more powerful than what you think. Obama could have pulled an FDR, or a Trump, and shifted the party very hard, but didn't. It's quite simple: you go to your opponent, you tell him that if he doesn't follow the whip you will use your vast reach to get him primaried, threaten to modify the rules of the DNC, hell, drum up support for a general strike. Threaten to slash the military budget, threaten to cancel a defence program, or to stop shale oil subsidies, play politics. But for some reason, from FDR onwards, no one plays politics except to concede towards the right. Literally no one in power. The platform of the Democratic Party has become "Let's be Republican-lite in order to win those elusive moderate independent" that for some reason seem to shift more and more towards the right for every single election cycle for the last 40 years, almost as if they were illusory or weren't as ideologically unmovable as asserted.

And it's total bullshit that the Democratic Party wouldn't consider a public option. The Republican Party was considering a public option.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#634

Post by Nasrudith »

rtkwe wrote: post #378
buboard wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, how is it that people employed in essential businesses have not become rich in this pandemic? After all they are in high, crucial demand and could/should command better wages than programmers at this time. Sure, some of those raises would increase the price of goods, but that would be offset by hefty UBI checks to everyone. How is it that people who endanger their lives working in supermarkets don't get raises, b…

That would only really happen where workers are actually getting compensation commensurate with the value of their work. That hasn't been true for years (if ever) in the US. Also essential doesn't really mean their more in demand now than before in all industries. Mechanics for example are essential and still at work but cars if anything will be needing less maintenance now than before because so many people are out…

Not to mention that even if demand rises the ability to pay doesn't necessarily rise as well. Value and price are not the same.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#635

Post by vinay427 »

q92z8oeif wrote: post #598
cultus wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The folks participating in the protest are not at all lower on the socioeconomic latter, but predominately middle class. Black Americans, who tend to be poorer and less secure, support the lockdown at a higher rate than whites or other racial groups [0] (at least in Florida). Whites have the least support for a lockdown, but most still oppose reopening. Lastly, at least some of the protests were funded by the DeVos f…

Fact that US still have to break down so much into racial cohorts in polls is weird. And offer nothing of value other than the generalizations like "who tend to be poorer" that doesn't help the discussion nor analysis. What do you do with this information in this context? How about breaking down by religion or something else that at least points to what kind of media/message the group is more exposed to? or something…

> How about breaking down by religion or something else that at least points to what kind of media/message the group is more exposed to?

I'm an American that fits into neither of these groups but nearly everyone I know does, so from my third party perspective I think you might be underestimating how different the sources, messaging, and conversations are between white and black Americans on average. That being said, I think it is still vastly overused in polls, and is perhaps a self-fulfilling prophecy to some degree.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#636

Post by yters »

RankingMember wrote: post #616
yters wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economic downturn can kill people, too. It is not as simple as dead people on one side and no dead people on the other.

Right, but one kills directly and in much larger numbers. I think it's clear which is the bigger mortal threat.

I disagree the situation is clear.

To take the logical extreme, if we were to avoid all possible immediate threat to life, no one should leave the house, let alone drive to work. Obviously, our society would immediately collapse, and many millions would die. So we have to balance possible immediate threats against likely longer term consequences. Something we do not seem to be doing very well in the case of covid-19.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#637

Post by mcphage »

stcredzero wrote: post #479
jdhn wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My question is how much, if any, social unrest this will lead to. The only social unrest that has happened so far have been the protests about wanting to lift or ease restrictions on states, and they were widely panned as a bunch of nutjobs. I doubt there will be any "unrest" beyond the protests.

The only social unrest that has happened so far have been the protests about wanting to lift or ease restrictions on states, and they were widely panned as a bunch of nutjobs. It's easy to look down on people lower on the socioeconomic ladder. They're still human beings. They've been given this raw deal: For the greater good, you will now give up your job for an indefinite period of time, with no prospect of finding…

> It's easy to look down on people lower on the socioeconomic ladder. They're still human beings. They've been given this raw deal: For the greater good, you will now give up your job for an indefinite period of time, with no prospect of finding like employment elsewhere. You have no choice, and if you refuse, you are a horrible person and in some cases you may face civil and criminal consequences.

The man in front of the protest to ease restrictions in my mid-sized city was a wealthy local real estate magnate.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#638

Post by baggy_trough »

lisper wrote: post #630
baggy_trough wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. Many large cities have been run exclusively by Democrats for decades and are notoriously corrupt, for example Chicago and Illinois more generally. The facts that are denied will be those that run counter to the prevailing sacred cows of whatever movement it is. One that especially irks me on the Democratic side of the fence is denying that the minimum wage has a cost in jobs, despite near universal belief…

That’s not an example that is a vague hand-wavy allegation. Which cities? What specific acts of corruption?

Actually, it is an example. These reports by the University of Illinois at Chicago have more details. The start of the most recent report:

"Chicago continues to be the most corrupt city in the country and Illinois remains the third most corrupt state."

https://pols.uic.edu/chicago-politics/anti-corruption-report...

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#639

Post by dlkf »

kilroy123 wrote: post #602
stcredzero wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only social unrest that has happened so far have been the protests about wanting to lift or ease restrictions on states, and they were widely panned as a bunch of nutjobs. It's easy to look down on people lower on the socioeconomic ladder. They're still human beings. They've been given this raw deal: For the greater good, you will now give up your job for an indefinite period of time, with no prospect of finding…

I completely agree with you, but... How about don't vote in leaders that only care about helping out their rich buddies then? The Scandinavian countries have moved to pay all payrolls to keep people paid during all this madness, instead of just bailing out large debt holders.

It's tough when your country isn't much of a democracy. A major difference between Scandinavia and the US/Canada/many others is that proportional representation plays a much greater role in the electoral system here.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#640

Post by jessaustin »

jdhn wrote: post #455
mcphilip wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is anecdotal and it might come across as bitter and tonedeaf as someone who is not in a STEM job and cant see the bigger picture very well. Im a diesel engine tech who repairs those big trucks carrying food and shit tickets to grocery stores. the fact that ANY market is completely detached from whats actually happening to Americans is frustrating. Thanks for posting this comment. I know it sounds trite, but I’…

>My question is how much, if any, social unrest this will lead to. The only social unrest that has happened so far have been the protests about wanting to lift or ease restrictions on states, and they were widely panned as a bunch of nutjobs. I doubt there will be any "unrest" beyond the protests.

...widely panned...

...in the corporate news media. They have never had the full story, and they have less and less of it recently. This knob has been turned too far; it's broken now. TPTB will remember they have other knobs (every other OECD nation is directly supporting citizens' incomes, for example) or the whole machine will catch fire.

Post reply on HN