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Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

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Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#631
I'm trying to understand what the employees hope to get out of this. The only substantial issue mentioned in the article is a dispute over whether "Always Punch Nazis" should be allowed on the site.

Does anyone have insight into what's motivating the Kickstarter employees here?

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Athletes unionize" is one of the better arguments I've heard for why devs should. I'm curious to learn more about the origins of the players' union.

Part of the reason athletes unionize, though, is because they play for monopoly leagues; there are no competitors for the top leagues in most American sports, so it isn't like you can just leave and play in the other NBA if you don't like their practices.

Movie stars belong to SAG-AFTRA.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Athletes unionize" is one of the better arguments I've heard for why devs should. I'm curious to learn more about the origins of the players' union.

I disagree. Professional sports leagues are both monopolies and monopsonies (meaning they’re the only ones hiring those specialized athletes). So the market dynamics are very different from that of tech. If you’re a NFL linebacker, you don’t really have an option to switch leagues if you’re unhappy with how it’s run. If you’re a software engineer, you can switch companies very easily.

Then look at movie stars instead of athletes if you feel the analogy isn't apt. They're all card carrying members of SAG-AFTRA.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect you're being downvoted because your statement is so obviously wrong. Democracies have consistently made horrifying decisions. Take a read through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

As have monarchies and dictatorships. So where does that leave us? The conclusions that all forms of government make horrifying decisions?

I like to think that a democracy and good decision making are not particularly correlated. But democracy is technology for preventing violent revolution because power change is built into the system.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it's accurate, though the "Always Punch Nazis" controversy was just the tip of the iceberg. Employees were being treated like enemies by some in upper management. Edit: I've been rate limited by HN mods (thanks!), so not replying on this account anymore. All the best!

The article is ambiguous, but I guess those organising the union were taking the side of leaving the project up? Or is the union demanding total freedom of speech in the terms of service? I'm guessing not. Doesn't that bother you, at least a little bit? How can whether or not to leave up "always punch nazis" be the union's signature issue? Unions are meant to fight for the common man against the elites. alwayspunchna…

> Given how many ordinary working class Americans voted for Trump, painting them all as Nazis and then insisting that such a fundraise remains live would seem to be the opposite of what unions historically stood for.

The Nazis won a plurality of the popular vote, so it’s not exactly a great distinguishing factor for Trump.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do all tech companies have legal monopoly where they share revenues and where you have to enter a draft to get a job? Sports leagues have nothing to do with how most companies operate.

Of course there's no monopoly. But tech companies are pretty happy to collude, both at an executive level (we've had court cases about this) and at the memetic "this is what we think about management" one, in order to work against workers' interests. We, too, are allowed to work together to combat this. Wage suppression, limiting our ability to grow and expand into different areas, and controlling the ability to exer…

There are only 20-35 “companies” that a professional athlete can work at. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of places employing “tech workers”.

If companies are colluding, that’s the issue where the government needs to intervene.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#637

Is Kickstarter in a right-to-work state? Because if not, 46 people are forcing 37 to support a union that they might not agree with, which is distasteful in the extreme.

You led me to find a map of US anti-union "right-to-work" states on wikipedia[1]. I previously figured pretty much all of the US is under RTW legislation, but it seems like, outside of the folks in Texas, almost the entire tech industry is in non-RTW states. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law#U.S._states_...

Looks like a nice list of places where I'm willing to live and where I'm not. If my co-workers want to unionize, more power to them, but I'm not going to give the union a single cent. Even if they are officially responsible for representing me to my employer, that wasn't my choice and they don't represent my interests.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kickstarter has a so-so 3.6 on Glassdoor Glassdoor's ratings are not terribly reliable. Here's something I wrote previously about my own experience with using it: ----- I left a poor review for an employer only one time in the 10 years or so I've been on Glassdoor (there were only a couple other reviews). And almost immediately after, there were about 20 or 30 5 star reviews posted in a short amount of time. The co…

One of my past employers did something like this. We had some negative reviews from job candidates that weren't hired. At an all hands our CEO encouraged everyone to leave honest feedback on Glassdoor. A lot of employees did, bumping our score up. It wasn't dishonest or misleading, all of the reviews were real.

Reviews are supposed to be from people who worked at the company, so if they were from rejected candidates they are fake reviews. If the company wouldn't remove the fake reviews, that further proves my point that the Glassdoor ratings are not reliable.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#639

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

"Athletes unionize" is one of the better arguments I've heard for why devs should. I'm curious to learn more about the origins of the players' union.

But even athletes have a clear distinction between management and "employee". The line is very blurry in engineering, esp. for senior devs which might go in and out of management frequently.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the engineering ethos of meritocracy You know what's pretty inarguably a real "meritocracy"? Professional sports players. And they're all unionized. Tech does not meaningfully or significantly adhere to any ethos of meritocracy; it is exactly as political as anything else. The part that really melts your brain is when you realize that the "meritocracy" myth is peddled so the people who don't realize they're bad at…

Sports is about the farthest thing from a meritocracy you can get. Only 25 NBA players in the history of the league have been below 5 foot 9 (175cm) [1] Professional athletes are genetic freaks first and foremost - look at the dropoff from college football players to professional players. It's not talent that determines who makes it, it's genetic ability. The absolute worst NFL team in history would decimate the best…

I don't think you understand what a meritocracy is.
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