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Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

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Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#561

Post by shadowgovt »

yibg wrote: post #439
elicash wrote: post #379

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

Just in terms of salary isn’t an union somewhat contradictory to the engineering ethos of meritocracy? I mean we’d like to think that the good ideas win and impact and outcome matters. We hold up the 10x engineers and those that make an outsized contribution to the industry / company / product right? Shouldn’t they get higher compensation compared to the rest of the work force? How do we square that with collective b…

The engineering ethos of meritocracy is a flawed model for management / employee interaction because it assumes a level playing field.

If anything, employees who believe their workplace should be a meritocracy can protect and provide force to that belief via a union.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#562

Post by scarface74 »

elicash wrote: post #379

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

Athletes need unions because sports organizations are a legal monopoly. All of the employees - the owners - set rules in concert.

When you graduate from college, you decide what company you want to apply for. You don’t have to participate in a draft where different employers have already decided the order they are going to make you an offer.

Also all sports team share some of their revenue streams.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#563

Post by thu2111 »

ksr_throwaway wrote: post #536
thu2111 wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the article's description of why the union was created accurate?

Yes it's accurate, though the "Always Punch Nazis" controversy was just the tip of the iceberg. Employees were being treated like enemies by some in upper management. Edit: I've been rate limited by HN mods (thanks!), so not replying on this account anymore. All the best!

The article is ambiguous, but I guess those organising the union were taking the side of leaving the project up? Or is the union demanding total freedom of speech in the terms of service? I'm guessing not.

Doesn't that bother you, at least a little bit? How can whether or not to leave up "always punch nazis" be the union's signature issue? Unions are meant to fight for the common man against the elites.

alwayspunchnazis.com has a cartoon of the US President being punched in the face at the top of it, and every article on that website calls the Republicans Nazis. Given how many ordinary working class Americans voted for Trump, painting them all as Nazis and then insisting that such a fundraise remains live would seem to be the opposite of what unions historically stood for.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#564

Post by Apocryphon »

notyourday wrote: post #558
Apocryphon wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Software engineers aren't a privileged set. They're just less fucked than the rest of the U.S. Former Middle Class." https://www.quora.com/Why-do-software-engineers-make-so-much...

Not recognizing that making over 100k/year sitting in $800 chairs, eating company provided organic snacks, having subsidized meals ( or fully free ) in lovely offices and complaining that the management is not woke enough that it dared to pull the "It is always a good time to punch a nazi" project before reinstating it not to offend the woke employees is the definition of privileged set.

In lovely open offices?

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#565

Post by falcolas »

whatshisface wrote: post #522
totaldude87 wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the tech people/artists working on gaming industry , Uber's male chauvinistic culture and the problems associated with that can be a typical examples of "why tech needs to unionize". So far , the medium.com has been the "systematic problems reporting tool" for tech and that just generates the views and small changes.. In the past decade, i hate to see that the word "unionizing" in itself has become a bad word…

> Uber's male chauvinistic culture and the problems associated with that can be a typical examples of "why tech needs to unionize" Why wouldn't the same employees that are setting Uber's culture set the union culture? The union is a collective bargaining unit that acts on behalf of the workers, not the most moral and upstanding workers, or the most progressive workers, or the workers that represent you personally.

From the public version of the story, a vast majority of the issues seemed to stem from management, not necessarily the workforce. A union would help all workers have a voice (and a union lawyer can be used to identify and validate early on that there is a problem to be solved).

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#566

Post by elicash »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #549
totaldude87 wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the tech people/artists working on gaming industry , Uber's male chauvinistic culture and the problems associated with that can be a typical examples of "why tech needs to unionize". So far , the medium.com has been the "systematic problems reporting tool" for tech and that just generates the views and small changes.. In the past decade, i hate to see that the word "unionizing" in itself has become a bad word…

Unions have a terrible reputation when it comes to helping people in the minority. They have elections and tyranny of the majority is the natural outcome. Unions and Labor parties have a nasty history of racism. About 15 years ago I was present when a UAW rep called a gay salaried coworker the f-word at 150 decibels and the company could do nothing. He is now the plant union chairman. I am sure this union will start…

Basically every institution in the U.S. has racism in its history.

But the reason the civil rights movement has been so aligned with the labor movement historically is because racial and economic progress are linked. That's one reason why there's more pay equity in union jobs.

Worth noting that Dr. King was assassinated, he was in the city because he was striking with sanitation workers.

https://www.theroot.com/dr-king-understood-the-power-of-unio...

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#567

Post by scarface74 »

eropple wrote: post #464
yibg wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just in terms of salary isn’t an union somewhat contradictory to the engineering ethos of meritocracy? I mean we’d like to think that the good ideas win and impact and outcome matters. We hold up the 10x engineers and those that make an outsized contribution to the industry / company / product right? Shouldn’t they get higher compensation compared to the rest of the work force? How do we square that with collective b…

> the engineering ethos of meritocracy You know what's pretty inarguably a real "meritocracy"? Professional sports players. And they're all unionized. Tech does not meaningfully or significantly adhere to any ethos of meritocracy; it is exactly as political as anything else. The part that really melts your brain is when you realize that the "meritocracy" myth is peddled so the people who don't realize they're bad at…

So do all tech companies have legal monopoly where they share revenues and where you have to enter a draft to get a job?

Sports leagues have nothing to do with how most companies operate.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#569

Post by buzzkillington »

echelon wrote: post #3

I really don't understand this. A career in software is one of the most pampered and lucrative ones I can think of. Due to the shortage of software engineers, we can go anywhere and get a job instantly. The only downside I can think of is ageism, but then again, I have colleagues in their 50s and 60s where I work. But I suppose this isn't universal. (I'm in Atlanta and we have a lot of older workers. Age doesn't seem…

>Yes, we're underpaid for the value we provide, but we're paid a hell of a lot more than most people.

And compared to Africa everyone in the US is overpaid. Janitors are welcome to try and raise their wages too. I will not lower mine on their behalf.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#570

Post by mafuyu »

yibg wrote: post #439
elicash wrote: post #379

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

Just in terms of salary isn’t an union somewhat contradictory to the engineering ethos of meritocracy? I mean we’d like to think that the good ideas win and impact and outcome matters. We hold up the 10x engineers and those that make an outsized contribution to the industry / company / product right? Shouldn’t they get higher compensation compared to the rest of the work force? How do we square that with collective b…

Tech work isn't a meritocracy, though. Even putting aside the issue of diversity and bias, there's a large gradient of working conditions and pay across the industry. There are plenty of really smart engineers online who have a popular following, and people are often shocked when it comes out that those people are severely underpaid relative to some college new grad churning out boilerplate for an ad company.

Also, do companies really value 10x engineers? Sure, the people who are truly at the top, well known, and know their worth have great negotiating power to work on interesting things and get paid a lot for it. What about everyone else? I'd say that most "10x" engineers aren't getting 10x the compensation. Most people who perform well will get a promotion or something, and that's it. The way tech companies manage workers and handle performance reviews isn't all that different from everyone else. Tech workers are capturing a fraction of the value they generate, and there's no reason for management to admit that.

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