A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem • Hacker News Board

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#621

Post by steveBK123 » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 11:09 PM UTC

Thlom wrote: post #479

steveBK123 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, in a way I think it's almost easier to have two incomes and pay for help/services with the excess. Even if there is a 2:1 income ratio, each side can feel they are contributing monetarily and collectively decide what tasks are worth doing vs paying for. I can understand the psychology of both sides - the breadwinner thinks they are doing their job outside the house so why is the spouse not doing all the stuff in…

Is it normal in the US that only one in a relationship is working? I don’t think I know anyone where only one in the relationship is working. To me it feels like the power dynamics in such a relationship quickly gets really toxic.

Outside high cost of living / coastal / urban areas yeah.

Even a lot of these people may be two income couples but came from one income households, so they grew up with a father doing nothing/much less around the house and find it normal.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#622

Post by yazaddaruvala » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 11:11 PM UTC

trelane wrote: post #284

raldi wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“I like leaving my glass by the sink, but I know you really hate it. Tell you what, I’ll stop doing it (which is not a concession that it’s wrong) as an act of love for you.” Then they express gratitude, and before you know it, you’ll get a favor like that back on something you really care about.

> before you know it, you’ll get a favor like that back on something you really care about. That is not at all guaranteed. Personally, I'd by surprised if it were commonly correct.

If it were guaranteed it would be a contract, not an act of love.

As others have said in other comments here, "you can't keep score". I'm still working on making sense of this too.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#623

Post by vecter » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 11:15 PM UTC

incomingpain wrote: post #280

rhacker wrote: post #251

This is how I read this. The wife may have long ago brought up some argument that was "banned". In other words - bread winner conversations. Bread winners often have this trait: I make all the money, and I can only do that by working my butt off. So you need to take care of all the other things. No questions. This is why the dishes is such a huge deal now: Since the ACTUAL conversation is banned (by the man) the only…

I read this and feel like I'm the bad guy and I don't understand how. I'm the breadwinner. I pay 100% of the bills, excluding the 'I went to buy potato chips and ice cream' I WFH so I also tend to do the majority of chores. Which when I get burnt out or get sick I don't get as many chores done and the house goes to shit. Only ending up punishing myself really. I also have to 100% of the time decide what's for dinner…

Look up Corey Wayne on YouTube. He explains this in his relationship videos. At the end of the day, it’s the man’s responsibility to take care of these things, and no amount of busyness is a justifiable excuse. One of my favorite quotes that my friend said to me last year is: “as a man, you have no excuses.”

It may seem unfair, but that’s the masculine responsibility. To run a tight ship and keep things orderly, regardless of what may be happening outside of the house.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#624

Post by StillBored » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 11:16 PM UTC

biomcgary wrote: post #422

scarby2 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's not that the husband expects his wife to do all the chores, it's that he doesn't actually believe the chores need to be done. This doesn't get said enough. It also not just wife vs husband - we all have different standards and it's a lesson that needs to be learned that usually someone isn't being malicious it's just not easy to force yourself to notice something if it's fine by your standards but not by your…

I have certain expectations how our home should function, but I don't expect my partner to do the work of meeting those expectations. I put them on myself. My partner has certain expectations of how the home should function. They should put those expectations on themselves. Work toward shared expectations should be shared. I would assert that when one partner works disproportionately toward meeting the unshared expec…

Yah, this might be the most succinct summary of I've seen so far of the entire argument too. And I might add, there isn't really a solution to that entitled attitude as long as it exists. The desired outcome, of the other partner trying to meet the expectations long term is likely just going to create resentment, or vise versa when the they don't try. So your right, if you can't match expectations its going to be a lose-lose scenario if people aren't willing to do the work themselves.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#625

Post by msrenee » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 11:17 PM UTC

pcthrowaway wrote: post #203

My relationship just ended for mostly similar reasons (it wasn't just glasses in the sink, it was a few other things I did that she considered disrespectful that seemed minor to me) I was the only one working and paying for the apartment, her hobbies, and school, but things like the above would escalate into long arguments that I would ask to defer. The problem was, I would sometimes forget details that were importan…

I've only got what you've said here, so maybe there's another side where she's studying her butt off and keeping the house clean and you were throwing clothes and dishes everywhere like confetti, but a 6-hour argument? I can't think of anything I could care enough about to have a 6-hour argument about it. Hell, I'm not sure I've ever made it more than an hour. At some point, it's just not going anywhere, so I go to another room or something to be pissed off somewhere else.

It sounds like the situation wasn't working for her at all and it's for the best that it's over. Either she's overreacting or living with you was just impossible. Sometimes two people just don't mesh and it's not worth forcing it.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#626

Post by brewdad » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 11:19 PM UTC

weldedtogether wrote: post #388

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never heard of men complaining about their female partners being untidy with household things except in the case where they simply do nothing (and that's rare), is that common where you are. My father did all the washing up in our house growing up, and mum did most of the cooking, but he never once annotated me for leaving dirty dishes whilst my mother regularly would complain. Almost every married woman I know…

Anecdotal evidence as it is, I'd like to vouch for the fact that I am usually the "mother" in this scenario. Dirty dishes being left out drives me nuts, especially if it's overnight. When I wake up and come out of the bedroom to a clean house, I'm relaxed. Waking up to a house with dishes still around from the night before can set a baseline stressed (need to do this still) mood for a hefty chunk of my day. On the ot…

I'm the one who is fine with a few dishes left overnight while my wife dislikes it but not enough to clean them herself (normally dish washing is my responsibility). We found a decent compromise by putting in a bigger, deeper sink when we remodeled our kitchen. Now a couple of glasses and bowls left overnight aren't really even visible until you are standing directly over the sink.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#627

Post by Twounwhe » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 11:21 PM UTC

dre85 wrote: post #550

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for writing this. I have a question for you, since my marriage ended for reasons similar to this author's. Why is the wife's desire more important than his? In other words, why must the husband live the way the wife wants and compromise is not acceptable (especially if they share cleaning responsibilities) -- compromise could look like "sometimes I do it her way, sometimes I do it my way." Why can't a partner…

I'm in a marriage and I struggle with this same question. I sometimes feel like the things my wife cares about are essentially endless. Like if I bend to "her way" and put effort into consistently placing the dirty cup in the dishwasher, next week something new comes up. Then it's the clothes on the floor of my side of the bed or not hanging my jacket or not putting my shoes away perfectly in the closet. At times I g…

> I sometimes feel like the things my wife cares about are essentially endless.

> Like how can a dirty dish even perturb somebody so much in the first place? Is it related to some trauma or childhood conditioning? Can it be addressed somehow?

Well, yes, sometimes "irrational" things are indicative of a deeper issue, e.g. Dad told me Mom left because I was messy, and if I keep things tidy I can keep people from leaving me and I will be OK.

Perhaps she's going through a rough patch, and this "I need a tidy environment" is how she's able to express it. Maybe she feels ignored/neglected/etc, and this is how she's able to express it. And it could be that you've dictated that things must go your way in other areas of the house/relationship, and here is where she feels comfortable asking that she not need to walk on eggshells, for things to be her way for once.

One thing to remember is that each of us has "irrational" requests when seen from the outside, regardless of how logical and reasonable they seem to us. Having a heart-to-heart where you both sit down with the mindset of "us vs the problem" could determine the root, which is the first step towards finding a true solution.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#628

Post by nraf » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 11:27 PM UTC

AussieWog93 wrote: post #559

Johnny555 wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But still, I can't imagine not being willing to move to any first world country that my senior executive spouse got transferred to -- as a senior corporate executive they've have a ton of resources at their disposal to make the move as easy as possible. I have a good job that I like, but if my wife told me her company was moving her to Japan for a while, I'd jump at the opportunity.

>I have a good job that I like, but if my wife told me her company was moving her to Japan for a while, I'd jump at the opportunity. Do you have kids? What's your relationship with your family like? How good/irreplaceable are your friendships? For a lot of people, dropping all of these things are inconceivable. I know my aunty was reduced to tears when her son (who is expecting a baby) moved from Woodend to Canberra.…

As another Aussie wog, I can relate with this.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#629

Post by makeitdouble » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 11:29 PM UTC

scarby2 wrote: post #324

Goronmon wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No she doesn't. She can just leave it there. She can leave her own glasses there, too. I'm having a hard time following the logic here. You agree that at some point someone has to do the dishes, correct? We can assume based on the article that the wife is the one doing the dishes. So, that means every time the husband leaves dishes out he is making more work for his wife than if he just put his dishes in the dishwash…

> We can assume based on the article that the wife is the one doing the dishes. So, that means every time the husband leaves dishes out he is making more work for his wife than if he just put his dishes in the dishwasher. Not necessarily the reasoning that it may be re-used is valid, also it may be that he would eventually put it in the dishwasher when the dishwasher is ready to be run. They could probably have come…

> the dishwasher is ready to be run

This might be difficult if he actually doesn’t understand when the dishwasher is ready to be run.

As you say there are solutions accommodating both viewpoints, but it requires either good communication, so one side’s “expertise” is conveyed and internalized by the other. Or both sides being competent enough at all the parts involved in the discussion, but for that they’d need to take turns doing the task so they both have the same understanding of the situation (it also gives more credibility to each other’s claims).

The article author choosing to put 100% of the efforts on the communication part was pretty convincing.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#630

Post by landryraccoon » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 11:31 PM UTC

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #539

gleenn wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He did mention that he would never care to change his behavior and had two reasons to continue doing it. I guess that doesn't mean it's the hill he would go to die on. I do struggle with the same thing, at what point is it something that's no longer a conversation, you should just change because the other person decided they cared enough about it. Having the wife end a marriage over it also seems ridiculous. If peopl…

> If I just sit around and say everything is "important", does that mean I get to have it my way all the time? This is my question, and i would like to hear from OP, married 33+ years, on his attitude about this.

> If I just sit around and say everything is "important", does that mean I get to have it my way all the time?

Is the implication here that your spouse views their marriage as a game they need to “win”, and saying “this is important” are the magic words they need to say to win?

Or are they sincerely trying to compromise and saying “I’m trying to meet you halfway but this is genuinely important to me”?