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Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

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Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#621

Post by llcoolv »

elicash wrote: post #379

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

Well. You can have all the free market leverage on the world, but without a union you cannot participate in regulatory capture and these days it is all that matters :)

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#622

Post by namewasmypw »

zip1234 wrote: post #190
mason55 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unions, in my experience, exist to help keep mediocre, unmotivated employees employed. One has no incentive to excel, as promotions are based on years "served", much like prison. There is nothing inherent in unions that make them operate like that.

I had a uncle that was a bricklayer and moved somewhere that bricklayers were in demand so that he could get paid more. He was not a union member. When the union found out he was doing the same work for slightly less, they sent some people over to threaten his life if he didn't join union or leave. He left.

So your uncle was a scab? Congratulations.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#623

Post by namesmypw »

zip1234 wrote: post #190
mason55 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unions, in my experience, exist to help keep mediocre, unmotivated employees employed. One has no incentive to excel, as promotions are based on years "served", much like prison. There is nothing inherent in unions that make them operate like that.

I had a uncle that was a bricklayer and moved somewhere that bricklayers were in demand so that he could get paid more. He was not a union member. When the union found out he was doing the same work for slightly less, they sent some people over to threaten his life if he didn't join union or leave. He left.

So your uncle was a scab? Congratulations.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#624

Post by burkaman »

pathseeker wrote: post #282
calderarrow wrote: post #235

Coming from a public accounting background, I’ve seen a variety of businesses. Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without, which makes sense, as unions are neither inherently good nor bad. They are a tool which can change the power dynamic and incentive structure of workers and employers throughout an organization, but there is nothing inherent about having a union t…

>Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without From the company perspective maybe, but I've not seen a union in the US that successfully rewards high performing employees over mediocre lifers. Overachievers end up leaving and you're left with no innovation. Do you have any examples of unions that have solved this problem?

> Overachievers end up leaving and you're left with no innovation.

Do you have any examples of this problem occurring?

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#625

Post by thu2111 »

xkemp wrote: post #598
thu2111 wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is ambiguous, but I guess those organising the union were taking the side of leaving the project up? Or is the union demanding total freedom of speech in the terms of service? I'm guessing not. Doesn't that bother you, at least a little bit? How can whether or not to leave up "always punch nazis" be the union's signature issue? Unions are meant to fight for the common man against the elites. alwayspunchna…

[flagged]

I'm not American, but I really don't think this counts as satire. What's it satirising, exactly? You can't just encourage people to be violent and call it satire.

BTW even though I support free speech, like most people I draw the line at explicit exhortions to beat people up. I thought it was quite basic.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#626

Post by UncleMeat »

thu2111 wrote: post #468
jimbokun wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, not a monopoly, but Apple, Google, and several other major Silicon Valley corporations did collude to keep developer salaries low.

That was discovered and busted by the government. It appears unions aren't necessary to end wage fixing cartels. And especially, note that unions are wage fixing cartels!

You should see how small my check was for restitution payments. I really don't think that the government fixed the problem effectively.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#627

Post by Barrin92 »

bluGill wrote: post #452
Barrin92 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It always made 100x more sense to me on some factory floor in the early 20th century than it does in a tech startup like environment in 2020. Why does that make more sense? The point of unionization is collective bargaining. Collective bargaining is effective whether you have 30 rockstar ninja developers or blue collar workers on a factory floor. In either case the collective action helps amplifying the workforce's…

Are you exactly equal to the worker next to you? If so collective bargaining makes sense because a good deal for everybody is the best deal you can get. If not, then collective bargaining is keeping some great people down. The fact that you said rockstar developer says you believe that there are some non-rockstar developers who are presumably worth less. Note that athletic unions do not bargain for wages in general (…

I used the term rockstar developer sarcastically. No I don't believe that the differences between individual developers outweigh the benefits of bargaining collectively. What I do believe is that there's a great reality distortion among developers that makes them think they're more unique than they actually are, which is a culture the tech sector has deliberately cultivated. Just like say, the image of the "nice CEO" who comes to work in a hoodie and pretends to save the world rather than doing what shareholders ask him or her to do. It's all just a stunt to obfuscate hierarchies.

And I'd stress again that I think the biggest thing to bargain for isn't necessarily wages, it's control over how these firms conduct themselves. Tech workers, almost more than anyone else, seem to have forgotten that they can be stakeholders in their firms.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#628

Post by _lacroix »

jaredtn wrote: post #221

I would love to understand the dynamic better, so please correct me here or chime in. Tech is has one of the best combinations of (lucrative + meritocratic) I've seen. Fields that pay similarly or better (law, medicine, investment banking) require either significant time-consuming credentials or significant time investment as an underlying (like IB analyst). The interview process does require intensive preparation to…

> Tech is has one of the best combinations of (lucrative + meritocratic) I've seen. Fields that pay similarly or better (law, medicine, investment banking) require either significant time-consuming credentials or significant time investment as an underlying (like IB analyst).

You mean ENGINEERING, not tech. The people who need these unions are not the engineers, they're the "disposable" soft skills jobs like community and customer support. These are the tech jobs that pay poorly and are mistreated while engineers are fought for with absurd compensation packages (see: Away).

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#629

Post by pensatoio »

Perhaps I’m jaded by my experience working for employers that support change and transparency, but I, for one, would immediately pack up and leave if any part of my firm’s white collar workforce unionized. I have zero interest in participating in collective bargaining. I work hard to stand out, and I capitalize on that influence to negotiate raises and promote change on my own.

While I’m sure there are situations that merit such a decision, might I suggest that unionizing < finding another employer that meets your needs. The inability or lack of desire to do so indicates to me either fear of change or aversion to risk, both of which are unwarranted from anyone who is continually working to improve themself.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#630

Post by freeone3000 »

bearmcbearsly wrote: post #618
carapace wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Why do tech workers need a union? I don't know if a union is the answer, but tech workers aren't immune to management hi-jinks: "Apple and Google's wage-fixing cartel involved dozens more companies, over one million employees" https://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage...

I dunno... I was a victim of this wage-fixing scheme, as were all of my coworkers at the time. And I don't know of a single one who would have preferred to have a union collectively negotiating wages. The whole scheme was that the companies stopped their recruiters from cold-calling each others' employees. That kept wages down by reducing the opportunities for people to get a better salary by moving between companies…

Collective bargaining does not necessarily include collective negotiation of wages.
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