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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#601

Post by swiley »

lostgame wrote: post #472
swiley wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are also plenty of people who like their coworkers and enjoy spending time with them You can do this without forcing them to be around you. That's apparently a new concept to a lot of people.

Sorry; but no. This weird virtual interaction is nowhere close to the real social environment of seeing and working with people face to face. We shouldn’t be forced to come in; but I for one would freakin’ love the option. This is a primary cause of concern for kids at school; that the social aspect is missing in that way. Nowhere close, really.

Just have lunch with them then, no need to make them change where they're working.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#602

Post by swman »

I’m personally looking forward to returning to the office. I think after this is over I’m going to find a smaller startup to work at or a smaller company.

Working remote makes me feel like a robot and I miss being around other people and finding Our mission together.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#603

Post by dougmwne »

ChrisArchitect wrote: post #315
ChrisArchitect wrote: post #309

Related 2021jun01: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-01/americans... ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27376591 ) Quote that stuck with me: "my fear is the biggest cost in the long run is all the single young men come in five days a week, and college-educated women with a 6-year-old and an 8-year-old come in two days a week, and six to seven years down the road there’s a huge difference in promotio…

and a followup thought I saw posted on twitter: "I like working from home when everybody is working from home" is not the same thing as "I like working from home when some people are working from home and some people are grabbing lunch with the boss", and I think a lot of us are about to figure that out.

This will be very true. WFH at a non-remote company means you are a pure resource. You need to be committed to the mercenary mindset that you are there to crank on deliverables so that the office drones can preen and posture. The upside is you get the skip the posturing and surf for lunch.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#604

Post by andrei_says_ »

treespace8 wrote: post #253
colinmorelli wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think expecting every employee to sit in an office for 8 hours a day every day is almost certainly unnecessary. That said, I also think it's unfair and disingenuous to suggest that there's absolutely no value whatsoever to colocation. It's possible that we can replicate much of the physical interaction's value through fully remote work, but my experience is that we're not there yet. It really depends on the work…

The more I read these conversations it becomes clear your position depends on where you are in the introvert / extrovert scale. Some people get a lot of energy from interacting one on one with others. These tend to be the loudest voices in any office. But so many people who are more introvered have just forced themselves to adapt. I guess what I'm trying to say, for everyone that wants to get back to the office, many…

I’m definitely an introvert. Having an office with a door caused my productivity to skyrocket.

When working from the office, I close the door in the morning and open it when I leave.

The 3 or 4 conference room meetings I had per month had half of the attendees on zoom. Being in the same conference room didn’t do much for me.

I still have no idea what socialization people speak of. Office small talk? Happy hours?

Are they worth spending 10 hours a week driving and losing all the benefits of working from home? Certainly not to me.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#605

Post by giantrobot »

trainsplanes wrote: post #512
wikibob wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus Christ. I eat well and spend maybe $400 a month on groceries and food. I’ve heard that Google recruiters attempt to con potential employees into some ridiculous assessment of the “free” food as a compensation benefit with numbers like those that you posited above. I can’t imagine valuing daily meals that highly.

Reading FAANG employees talk about food prices makes me realize the old "It's one banana. What could it cost, $10?" is something that was written based on reality.

At Apple Park lunch at Cafe Macs could easily run $10-15 (without a drink) depending on what station you ordered from. The food there was good but not exactly cheap.

The campus was really too big to leave for lunch unless you arrived at some stupid early hour to park underground below your office. It's a 10-15 minute walk to the south parking garage and then at least a 10 minute drive to the closest places to eat and none of those are cheaper than the cafe.

So unless you're bringing food from home you can pretty easily hit $20 for lunch per day. I doubt Cafe Macs is running a huge profit but the cost for employees is non-trivial.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#606

Post by tayo42 »

There's a lot of speculation and talk about motivations. Isn't Apple primarily a hardware company? Maybe someone who works there can set me straight, but it seems logical for Apple to need at least some of its workers in an office. They cant be shipping prototype phones, laptops etc.. all over the world and then expect nothing to leak? Or even effectively develop it?

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#607

Post by andrei_says_ »

new_realist wrote: post #39
andrei_says_ wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a household with two teenagers one couldn’t go back to school while the other one flat out refused to. So, 50% of the kids don’t want the socialization.

They also don’t want to clean their room.

If it’s their room why would they be forced to maintain it to another person’s preferences?

My comment was about this mythical socializing that kids presumably needs so much.

Not all of them do.

School as an institution exists to free up housewives to participate in the workforce and maximize employers’ profit while preparing cheap workforce by giving a minimal education to the kids. Any benefits for the children are secondary - let’s not buy in too much into the PR.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#608

Post by hawthornio »

tootie wrote: post #437
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

I will always prefer WFH for a critically important reason no one else seems willing to mention. I get to use my own bathroom. Sitting in a stall next to someone noisy is my daily hell. The worst is if the seat is still warm. I think may have actually avoided using a public restroom for 15 straight months.

I started using a bidet during the pandemic and I am dreading having to use normal American toilets

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#609

Post by andrei_says_ »

jim-jim-jim wrote: post #115
andrei_says_ wrote: post #28

Why? Because of the already sunk cost into office space? Any other reasons? I know I can drive 40 min and stare at the same laptop and email/zoom with the same people. What’s in it for me? All I see is unnecessary agony, and a lot of it. I produce more from home. Why does an employer want me to suffer more, even if it will cost them? What’s in it for them?

> Because of the already sunk cost into office space? Surely this must be a big part of it, but I haven't seen any good discussions about the topic. Workers are being massively inconvenienced and the environment is being put under unnecessary stress to prop up the value of now-redundant real estate.

Recently I read an essay pointing out that what we call “environment” is our de facto biosphere. It is not surrounding us, it literally keeps us alive, permeating is with every breath and every bite of food.

Destroying the biosphere is the end of life.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#610

Post by marcyb5st »

wikibob wrote: post #424
gnicholas wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The food/drink part could be the most of it. A Google employee enjoying free food and drink could save $60/day versus buying prepared food ($10 for breakfast, $20 for lunch, and $30 for dinner). If you drink much coffee or other beverages, that could be another $15/day. If you weigh this against spending an extra hour or two commuting, then it looks like a lousy bargain. But if you are like many people, and ended up…

Jesus Christ. I eat well and spend maybe $400 a month on groceries and food. I’ve heard that Google recruiters attempt to con potential employees into some ridiculous assessment of the “free” food as a compensation benefit with numbers like those that you posited above. I can’t imagine valuing daily meals that highly.

I work for Google and live in Switzerland where food is really expensive so my situation doesn't generalize well.

However, if 1) I cook all my food, and 2) try to have a healthy diet I spend easily the equivalent of 30USD/day. Going to a restaurant sets you back around the same amount per meal.

So, assuming I work 200 days/year going to the office and get free food would save me 6k USD/year (also assuming I cook 100% off my meals). That kind of money would pay for holidays or other stuff.

Finally, my back of the envelope math didn't include the time I spend cooking and all the "premium" stuff I get at the office like fancy drinks and snacks, which I usually don't buy when WFH.

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