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Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

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Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an alternate perspective, that >100% of beds can be occupied by people with COVID could terrify you. People in gurneys lined up along hallways, PPE running low, overflow tents in the parking lots, nurses WAY over ratio handling more patients than is safe, doctors burned-out and scared. So, any patient in a hospital that tests positive should be going into a negative-pressure room so that the hospital doesn't becom…

People in gurneys lined up along hallways, PPE running low, overflow tents in the parking lots, nurses WAY over ratio handling more patients than is safe, doctors burned-out and scared. 'Terrified' is all relative, right? Such things are reported in recent years with nobody panicking like in 2020: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/saline-solution-s... “This is a serious situation and right now we are at the…

Happy to hear your alternate policy proposal.

If you were mayor of the City of Los Angeles, what would you do differently, and what would be your justification to the citizens for your policy?

Do you feel the policy you outlined would be judged to be significantly better than the current policy by the majority of voters of the City of Los Angeles?

If so, how much better, and measured by which metrics?

Do you feel that there would be pushback against your policy by City Council, Public Health Officials, Public Safety Officials, or other key stakeholders?

What would be the risks if your policy was wrong and you had misjudged the situation? What would be your contingency plans?

If your policies are workable, let's get them concisely outlined and email them to some key interest groups so that they can start getting them out to the public and key stakeholders.

Do you have experience in Public Administration and Public Health? If you're an epidemiologist or city official, your credentials will give your policies more weight and your knowledge and experience will be highly valued since it likely takes into account a variety of 'Chesterton's Fences' that a layperson wouldn't have considered.

Even if you have no knowledge of the field, you might have some great ideas.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#602
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people complain about California policies, but I don't ever see anyone stop to think that maybe those policies aren't there to serve them. That is, perhaps they aren't the constituency those policies were implemented for. And maybe America and certainly California don't need half the country moving to just one state.

I think if someone really owns this credo - “I’m using the government to improve my life at the expense of someone else’s property rights” - I could maybe respect that? At least it’s consistent. None of the people I’ve encountered who oppose housing construction seem to see things this way. Most of them seem to be economic conservatives who see themselves as having won a “fair game” and the fact that they’re using th…

It's a mutual agreement to strip each other of troublesome property rights. These people aren't exempting themselves. They want to prevent tragedy-of-the-commons troubles, spite houses, and other anti-social troubles. They mutually agree (government) to prevent anybody from making the place miserable.

Thus there is no right to build: an 80-story apartment tower, a supervised injection place for IV drug users, an organometalic peroxide production plant, a hog farm, and a tire recycling plant.

The demand is there for even more restriction. In many areas, new housing is exclusively in home owner associations or in condominiums.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#603
post #16

HP and Oracle don’t exactly represent the heart of Silicon Valley today and what makes it special/unique. I actually think zombie corporations like Oracle, companies that haven’t innovated in decades and instead rely on an army of sales people to sell legacy software, are somewhat the antithesis of Silicon Valley which is really about real technological innovation and disruption at it’s core. I know there are lots of…

> produces more technological advancements than Silicon Valley

Boston would say otherwise.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That size comparison doesn't actually show a comparison. It only has the footprints for the other factories, and the entirety of the land purchase for the texas factory. What a bizarre thing! If you look at the planning documents you'll see that the planned footprint for the texas factory is probably a similar size to the plans for the rest of their "giga" factories. https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/202…

It explains the footprints in the article. They're largely not usable, whereas the Austin one is. These are manufacturing jobs. It is not exactly like California has a better environment for that than Texas.

Your second statement struck me, and I was curious how the manufacturing sectors compare for California vs Texas.

Numbers from the National Association of Manufacturers:

California: $316.7b manufacturing output, 10.67% of state product, 7.72% of employment. [1]

Texas: $230.45b manufacturing output, 12.98% of state product, 7.04% of employment. [2]

So really, it doesn't seem like one state is particularly better than the other for manufacturing by the numbers.

1: https://www.nam.org/state-manufacturing-data/2019-california...

2: https://www.nam.org/state-manufacturing-data/2019-texas-manu...

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#605
post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two counterpoints: - Direct your discontent toward the corporations and landlords who are exploiting Prop 13 when it wasn't intended for them. It was intended to protect homeowners (often on retirement income) from skyrocketing property values that is out of their control. It's done great at that, but unfortunately (like any regulation) has also been exploited by the greedy. - That aside, don't presume to be entitled…

From their perspective, of course it would be unfortunate that your parents cannot continue to have their lifestyle subsidized. For the rest of us, that money could gladly be used for schools, infrastructure, etc Luckily, if someone is being priced out by fair property taxes, they still own a valuable asset.

So, "their perspective" is that their home is where they live, and your perspective is that their home is an asset. From your perspective, they should be glad their asset has multiplied in value, and they should be happy to pay the government based on that. From their perspective, they didn't ask for the asset to increase in value, and they're just trying to live there — while people like you resent them for living there and not building a high-rise apartment building instead.

How about I go to your hometown and bully your folks out of their house? They ought to be fine with that, right? It's just an asset. Come on.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#606
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chicago, while not dead, is a fraction of what it used to be. While it used to be at the vanguard of US cities, when is the last time you’ve heard it mentioned in national news in a good way? Not all cities end up like Detroit. Some just fade into irrelevance.

That's not what the doomsayers were predicting. They were expecting a detroit-style implosion since the 1970s, suggesting such an event was just a year or two around the corner.... for the last 45 years. Much different than "This city's influence will wane as other metros rise and grow" Incidentally, Zillow has Chicago and the surrounding metro area posting the highest growth in home value (source: https://www.chicag…

[deleted]

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in gurneys lined up along hallways, PPE running low, overflow tents in the parking lots, nurses WAY over ratio handling more patients than is safe, doctors burned-out and scared. 'Terrified' is all relative, right? Such things are reported in recent years with nobody panicking like in 2020: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/saline-solution-s... “This is a serious situation and right now we are at the…

Happy to hear your alternate policy proposal. If you were mayor of the City of Los Angeles, what would you do differently, and what would be your justification to the citizens for your policy? Do you feel the policy you outlined would be judged to be significantly better than the current policy by the majority of voters of the City of Los Angeles? If so, how much better, and measured by which metrics? Do you feel tha…

Policy proposal in three parts:

1. I'd observe Sweden and follow the actions of Tegnell, as Sweden has had a pretty good pandemic so far.

2. To placate those who are worried I'd focus on raising hospital capacity as much as possible.

3. I'd get a grip on testing. Doctors are all trained not to do indiscriminate testing without any other signs of problems, a lesson that has been forgotten now. I'd end mass testing entirely and focus all testing on people who present with symptoms (this would still be a high level of over-testing because COVID symptoms were worked out by looking at anyone who tested positive so is polluted by a lot of FP noise).

Key metrics are hospital loads and excess deaths. It would be acceptable for the latter to go up by, say, 3x the level a normal flu season would see before starting to impose any population controls.

Pushback: of course there would be. They've all been told by "experts" who know nothing about disease that millions will die unless everyone is locked in their homes right now because exponential growth always lasts forever, don't you know, and they're all terrified of seeming to place anything above health outcomes. But if I were the mayor then they'd ultimately report to me, I guess (I don't live in the US so don't know much about mayoral politics).

The risk if the policy was wrong would be hospitals would get over-full. The contingency plan would be to buy capacity from hospitals in further away regions and invest in rapid buildouts of ambulances, helicopters etc to make it easy to shift capacity around and load balance between hospitals, including to neighbouring regions that disagreed. But I don't think that's likely because we know what happens if you ignore the projections: basically nothing. Look at Swedish all-cause death stats for the year. It'll come in a bit higher than 2018, probably a few percent higher. Nothing important.

W.r.t emailing key interest groups. It's way too far gone for that. People have been proposing rational and sensible alternative plans for the last 8 months, they're all ignored.

I have no experience in public health or epidemiology, thank god. If I did I wouldn't be able to consider alternatives because I'd be a part of the public sector/academic system in which personal reputation as a 'nice guy' or 'clever specialist' is the primary determinant of personal success. I'm much happier in the private sector where what matters is getting results, not the perception of niceness or reasonableness or cleverness.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which also does not have state income tax.

nah, we got some of the highest sales tax in the country instead.

Sure, but California has similar levels of sales tax to Washington and the highest state income taxes in addition.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happy to hear your alternate policy proposal. If you were mayor of the City of Los Angeles, what would you do differently, and what would be your justification to the citizens for your policy? Do you feel the policy you outlined would be judged to be significantly better than the current policy by the majority of voters of the City of Los Angeles? If so, how much better, and measured by which metrics? Do you feel tha…

Policy proposal in three parts: 1. I'd observe Sweden and follow the actions of Tegnell, as Sweden has had a pretty good pandemic so far. 2. To placate those who are worried I'd focus on raising hospital capacity as much as possible. 3. I'd get a grip on testing. Doctors are all trained not to do indiscriminate testing without any other signs of problems, a lesson that has been forgotten now. I'd end mass testing ent…

Sweden seems to be grappling with the fallout of that approach:

"Health officials in Sweden have warned that intensive care units (ICUs) in and around Stockholm are under severe pressure and close to capacity for the first time during the pandemic."

"Although the city’s hospitals could increase the number of beds allocated to ICUs, there are insufficient specialist staff to support them, said Björn Eriksson, director of Region Stockholm Healthcare."

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4833

Again, placing a gurney in a closet doesn't make it an ICU bed. You need specialized staff, which are in short supply.

Consider the scale as well that you'll be working with as mayor of LA:

The population of the city of Los Angeles proper is 3.8 million, but the population of the greater LA area (19 million) is almost twice the population of the entire country of Sweden (10 million). Los Angeles has to make policy with limited control inside of a very complex environment.

The homeless population of Los Angeles is estimated to be around 66,000 people. That's twice that of the entire country of Sweden.

The state of California, alone, has 40 million people, and open borders with Arizona, a state with nearly the population of Sweden (7 million) and zero state-level mask restrictions.

Los Angeles County is currently seeing 134 deaths per day from Coronavirus, even with California in lockdown.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-16/l-a-coun...

> "The risk if the policy was wrong would be hospitals would get over-full."

This is not the risk. The risk is that thousands of people would die, both from Corona and the fact that hospitals will be closed to all patients Corona or not.

> "They've all been told by "experts" who know nothing about disease that millions will die unless everyone is locked in their homes right now"

300,000 people have died in the United States so far as a result of Coronavirus. People are projecting we might reach a million by the end of 2020. If we continued on the current trajectory that would be an almost certain bet.

> "The contingency plan would be to buy capacity from hospitals in further away regions and invest in rapid buildouts of ambulances, helicopters etc to make it easy to shift capacity around and load balance between hospitals, including to neighbouring regions that disagreed."

Who would pay for this? We have a private healthcare system, not a public one. The City of LA is not in the business of purchasing and operating helicopters for medical use. There is no budget for that. Private companies like Reach handle the overwhelming majority of medvac and transport helicopters in the U.S.. Ambulances are operated by a checkerboard of private companies and City/County fire. We don't have a socialized, universal healthcare system so it's basically impossible to coordinate resources like this. How would you 'buy' capacity? Billing is through private insurance. Would the city agree to pay all costs related to patients in a hospital in another county? I bet the hospitals wouldn't agree to that since it's almost guaranteed they wouldn't get paid.

One thing that limits the ability to transpose Sweden's policies on the United States is the sheer scale here. California is massive. The U.S. is massive. Individual states are the size of whole European countries, they effectively operate as a schengen area with no restrictions on the flow of people, and spotty mask compliance depending on where you are. And forget grand ideas of coordinating from one city or county to the next. Our system is private, and private companies get to do whatever they want. Unless they're going to be well-paid for something, you can bet they're not going to go along with it.

> "I'm much happier in the private sector where what matters is getting results, not the perception of niceness"

I don't know that putting California, and Los Angeles in another lockdown is being interpreted as niceness here. Lots of people are pissed, people are losing their businesses, but many many people are also dying and becoming very ill. Both Newsom and Garcetti are making some very difficult choices to get results.

I genuinely don't mind that you have a different take on the situation. I'm happy to just sit and discuss this stuff.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... I'm happy to see companies relocate elsewhere. The unbridled growth of companies here without improvements to infrastructure like housing and transportation are what caused many of the problems. This seems like an odd mindset. Why are you happy to drain the local economy, instead of working to fix those problems and support a good economy?

This also seems like an odd mindset. Can’t you have a good economy without overpopulating an area? A saying I grew up with - The frog does not drink up the pond in which it lives.

The Bay Area is far from overpopulated. It's infamous for building as little housing as possible, but allowing office buildings to go up left and right. There's plenty of room to take a little space from new offices and instead build housing.
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