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Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

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Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe that the reason everything is so expensive in California is regulation and taxes. Here's why: The North Coast (Eureka, Crescent City) and Central Valley (Chico, Fresno, Modesto, Bakersfield) are under the same regulatory and tax regime as the rest of California. How expensive is Eureka? Houses average $300K [1]. Restaurant meals are about $10-12. [2][3] How expensive is Bakersfield? Houses are about $…

I lived in Bakersfield for a long time. You know what they don't have, insane zoning restrictions that prevent housing. For example, the Houston MSA, which has almost no zoning restrictions is within 90% of the population (and 80% population density) of the Bay Area 9 county MSA with an average house price of... $249K at 2,000 sq ft. And there's a reason I left Bakersfield and moved to Austin. It's because PG&E energ…

I'll grant you that Bay Area zoning is fucked up. That's under local jurisdiction, though: the state keeps trying to override local zoning requirements to build more housing and keeps getting shot down at the ballot box.

My sister lives in Houston (well, Sugarland technically), so I'm well acquainted with the metro area. It's a very different lifestyle. The housing stock in the Bay Area is uniquely terrible - most of it is 3BR Eichlers that were mass-produced in the 60s. But people don't spend all that much time indoors. Pre-COVID, my wife and I were out every weekend to museums, hiking, the beach, picnics, restaurants, etc. There are 4 parks within walking distance of my home, 2 commercial downtowns, then the mountains are 5 minutes away, the beach 20, SF 30, SJC 30, the Bay 5, etc. And the weather cooperates - it's a consistent 70 and sunny for 8 months out of the year. Meanwhile, my sister's place is 50% larger for a quarter of the price - but it better be, because it's 100 degrees with sweltering humidity for 8 months out of the year. They need to take a highway onramp to get anywhere. They have no friends, because everyone they meet is so far away. Downtown Houston is a little different (my sister went to Rice, Rice Village is pretty nice), but also a completely different story in terms of housing prices - you start seeing million dollar homes once you get to the downtown areas of Houston.

Different strokes for different folks. We could've purchased my sister's house for cash at the time they bought it. I floated the idea by my wife, and she was like "But then we'd have to live in Houston!"

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it take an MBA to do that work?

You don't need an MBA for the financial/high level business knowledge requirements (though many people involved in this have one), but the people networks that MBA programs provide are very beneficial in getting connected to the right person at the right company.

So MBA actually means MBA from top 10, maybe top 15 school? I can’t imagine the network being too useful for the 25th best MBA program.

My friends have only recently graduated from their MBAs. Will be interesting to see if their networks help.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I partially agree. However, Elon Musk has personally moved to Texas, and he's begun moving some operations of his companies there as well, like SpaceX and Tesla. And those are certainly disruptors. You're underestimating just how toxic California's political climate has become towards business. Democrats see them as bottomless pits of money to be abused and extorted, while giving them nothing back in return. Some com…

The political climate in California is astonishingly toxic and disconnected from the realities of the market. I for one cannot wait to leave this place for greener pastures. California's answer to everything is raise taxes. And everyone cheers. And nothing gets fixed.

> California's answer to everything is raise taxes.

Really? It's almost the end of 2020 and California hasn't passed a single tax increase. Let's look at 2020 ballot measures:

* Requires commercial and industrial properties to be taxed based on market value and dedicates revenue? REJECTED

Source: https://ballotpedia.org/California_2020_ballot_propositions

And legislation?

* AB 2088 - Wealth Tax? REJECTED

* AB 1253 - Tax rate increase on taxpayers making over $1M? REJECTED

* AB 398 - Headcount tax on businesses with 500+ employees? REJECTED

Source: https://blog.armaninollp.com/tax/2020/09/08/ca-legislative-s...

FWIW, Democrats have held a supermajority (>= 2/3) in both the House and Senate all year long.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I totally agree and I think property taxes are way more fair and equitable for a society than income taxes." Until you retire and no longer can pay the tax and are kicked out of your home. Logically, it makes more sense to tax people who are actually making money (income and capital gains) since that means they actually have money. Taxing people on a fundamental need (shelter) could potentially increase homelessness…

Couldn't you give property tax breaks to retirees, or to people temporarily out of work?

AGE 65 OR OLDER OR DISABLED EXEMPTIONS FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS:

https://comptroller.texas.gov/taxes/property-tax/exemptions/...

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what exactly is 'economically illiterate'. i cant take anything you wrote seriously until you explain this made up word wrt this talking point. if you are talking about the exemption given to the children who inherit property and the prop 13 benefits along with it, i am in agreement. i am also in cautious agreement with prop 13 being amended when it comes to commercial properties. any prop 13 amendment that adversely…

> what exactly is 'economically illiterate'. i cant take anything you wrote seriously until you explain this made up word Have you heard of financial literacy or scientific literacy? Economic literacy is similar. I am using the English language in a very straightforward manner. > the notion that high taxes will somehow benefit the state is a very ill thought out plan. Who said anything about increasing total state re…

>I am using the English language in a very straightforward manner.

english is not my first language. economic literacy wrt this topic seems irrelevant.

>After Prop 13 passed, a big chunk of the state revenue was tied up in propping up local governments.

wrong. property taxes are diverted to the state's public education program through a complicated set of formulas called LCFF.[1]

it collects all the property taxes. dumps them in a big pot and redistributes them. for example: an affluent bay area neighbourhood's property taxes will go fund a farm labourer community in central california. 44% of state income goes to public schools. you wont see a dime of it to pursue any of the above stated goals. what is the point in unhousing and imposing punitive taxes on the senior population who have worked hard to buy their homes.

if they are paying low taxes, it automatically means that they bought it years ago. the solution is to regulate housing prices and engage other controls and processes so housing costs dont spiral out of control due to speculative housing markets.

>It will also encourage development (new property developers will no longer be disadvantaged vs. existing landowners), bringing in more money (and reducing blight) and reducing the need to tax individual earners even more.

how? how will increasing taxes on older properties that are still housing original buyers and havent been resold.. 'encourage development' without UNHOUSING existing people with fixed incomes who are already living there.

i think the word you are looking for or didnt mention is 'gentrification'.

people with income and those who consume should be taxed. if someone earns 200k as a FAANG employee, they shouldnt be given more tax breaks than a 70 year old senior houseowner on a fixed income. you are asking that prop 13 punish older houseowners so they will be forced to give up their residences to fund the younger citizenry.

those who consume from smart phones to game consoles to electric cars should be taxed for their higher consumption.

those who have children should be taxed because the children consume resources and need to be educated. the peers of parents should share the burden. not the generation that has already done it's part and is getting ready to retire.

people should be taxed on income. if at all. people shouldnt be taxed because they are old and have fixed immovable assets.

your comment suggests that we should 'reduce the need to tax individual earners' more and by messing with prop 13, you want to increase the burden of taxation on NON EARNERS with non income producing fixed assets. homes are not for income generation or speculative purposes or tax cows.

your proposal wants to add tax paying seniors to the throngs of drug addicted, mentally ill, financially insolvent people, unfortunate people who are already housing insecure.

and we will spend more money on social programs to house them. unless you are hoping that the high taxes will drive them away by making them sell their homes and they will move elsewhere. because the younger generation cannot live within their means and are financially illiterate?

no.

[1]https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/aa/lc/

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#526
post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The political climate in California is astonishingly toxic and disconnected from the realities of the market. I for one cannot wait to leave this place for greener pastures. California's answer to everything is raise taxes. And everyone cheers. And nothing gets fixed.

> California's answer to everything is raise taxes. Really? It's almost the end of 2020 and California hasn't passed a single tax increase. Let's look at 2020 ballot measures: * Requires commercial and industrial properties to be taxed based on market value and dedicates revenue? REJECTED Source: https://ballotpedia.org/California_2020_ballot_propositions And legislation? * AB 2088 - Wealth Tax? REJECTED * AB 1253 -…

> It's almost the end of 2020 and California hasn't passed a single tax increase.

Prop 19 involves both additional exemptions and limitations on existing exemptions from full-value assessment, but is projected on balance to be a net increase, and is definitely an increase for some taxpayers, and it passed. So, while I agree with your general point, this claim is technically overstated.

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...which was dreamed up and promoted by such right-wing people, back when they had influence in California.

As were most laws that are now criticized. We actually have a huge amount of Conservatives in CA. It’s far from the leftist whatever-the-heck you probably hear. Make sure you can afford the few % more you’ll pay in taxes and you’ll be just fine! It was negligible compared to my Midwest home state’s taxes; I was genuinely surprised by that after hearing so much negativity about the place and it’s laws. Come visit some…

Trump got more votes in California than in any other state including TX and FL

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#528
post #461
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first thing that any state should do to make itself a new tech hub is create strong protections for workers so they can freely move to different companies or found their own. Pro-labor is not anti business, quite the opposite here. But it's never understood that way.

Problem is: most governments think of "pro-labor" laws as paid sick or maternity leave, labor unions privileges, or protections from being fired, e.g. mandating longer notice periods. This mostly benefit low wage workers, who lack bargaining power, but the needs of highly paid tech workers (such as no non-competes) go unnoticed.

Comprehensive labor reform could be a solid platform for any state representative or governor that wants to make a run in 2024, and I can see several states taking it on. There are many horses to be traded.

Some things like banning non-competes, personal IP protections, corporate immunity from COVID lawsuits, police union reform, teachers union reform, pension reform, family and sick leave... there are so many things to attach one's name to its mind boggling. And there is wide support for some of these things on both sides of the aisle - and it doesn't touch guns or abortion!

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#529

This general topic seems to come back into focus on a regular basis on HN (last time, 1 week ago). People have been leaving SV in numbers for the 30 years I've been here, always citing traffic & cost of housing as the primary reasons. Though this time, you could add decriminalization of petty crime. Nonetheless, the population growth remains net positive. The fundamental design of the Internet was to be robust agains…

I’ve seen comments about the “end of Silicon Valley” as early as 1993. Though back then you could get a house in Cupertino for 300k? It’s now $3M. This has some effect and makes living here to start a company higher risk.

Back then a software engineer at a well-known big company would make around $30-50k (not inflation adjusted). Combined with 1993's interest rates (~7%) $300k was quite steep.

Today the same engineer at a FAANG would make about $300k. Houses are about $2M and interest rates are about 2%, so relatively speaking things are cheaper. However, unlike in 1993, today's salaries are unlikely to grow by 10x over the next 30 years while the mortgage is paid off!

Re: Silicon Valley exodus: Bay Area tech companies leaving for Texas

#530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the exceptions in the actual order. https://www.lamayor.org/sites/g/files/wph446/f/page/file/202... It isn't as odious as it's made to seem. You can still grab takeout from a restaurant, buy weed, go to the grocery store, do your laundry, go to an outdoor fitness class, go to youth sports, surf at the beach, do some outdoor lap swimming, get your nails done, go to the zoo, etc. The request to fill out an online…

That >100% of beds can be occupied with COVID should raise some questions about those stats. ICU beds are flexible, it's more of a designation than a hard constant. Sweden doubled their ICU capacity in a few weeks without much difficulty back in March. So it's normal for ICU to run near "capacity" because it'd be kind of wasteful if it didn't. Remember also that "COVID patient" means "patient who tested positive for…

As an alternate perspective, that >100% of beds can be occupied by people with COVID could terrify you. People in gurneys lined up along hallways, PPE running low, overflow tents in the parking lots, nurses WAY over ratio handling more patients than is safe, doctors burned-out and scared.

So, any patient in a hospital that tests positive should be going into a negative-pressure room so that the hospital doesn't become a super spreader event. When you get too many patients, it becomes impossible to actually do that, and it gets kind of scary both for people with non-COVID issues, as well as the staff. Doctors, and nurses, and ER techs, and social workers, and respiratory therapists, and security, and janitors, and radiology techs, and CNAs aren't disposable.

The other issue is that you need doctors and nurses to run the ICU. Critical care physicians and nurses are in high demand all over the country right now, and LA may not be able to double their number of ICU specialist staff on a week-by-week basis.

Sweden has a universal, socialized healthcare system, so they are able to allocate resources nationally based on demand. In the United States, it's a checkerboard of private, nonprofit, and county facilities, each with different structures, policies, health record systems, profit sources, etc. so planning and coordination becomes very complex.

Again, the order does not prevent people from going outside, there is a long, long list of exempted activities in the actual order.

I have turned this problem over in my head a lot, and I really can't think of a good alternate policy approach specific for the highly dense urban setting of LA city proper. I don't have a good answer along the lines of 'this is what they should be doing instead.'

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