Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#601

Post by veilrap » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 2:25 AM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #561

_qulr wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iPhone is not a store. The App Store is a store. Epic wants to be on the iPhone, but not necessarily in the App Store. Ideally, Epic wants to run its own store on the iPhone. In any case, App Store is the only store in town, where the "town" is the 1.5 billion iOS users. If there's only 1 store, with no competing stores, that's an entirely different situation legally.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

I bought a $1000 device because Apple gets to decide what can run on it. I like iOS, and I like that Apple provides a great user experience on the device.

I was not in any way coerced into buying said device, and there are a plethora of other options for substitute devices had I wanted more control of what runs on the device, which I do not.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#602

Post by ifmpx » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 2:27 AM UTC

mcphage wrote: post #586

Aeolun wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

It's true for every video game console, which have run to up to $600. I'm not sure if $400 makes that much of a difference.

Video game consoles shouldn't be locked down either.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#603

Post by rpdillon » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 2:27 AM UTC

mcphage wrote: post #586

Aeolun wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

It's true for every video game console, which have run to up to $600. I'm not sure if $400 makes that much of a difference.

Game consoles are for entertainment. Phones run our lives. There is a difference in practice, though perhaps not in theory.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#604

Post by cavanasm » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 2:27 AM UTC

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #192

gameswithgo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people familiar with Tim Sweeny’s life and ideology know that it is an actual important issues to him that platforms be open. your cynical take is often very true but there are sometimes real human ideals behind things.

Tim Sweeney may be a wonderful man who loves open platforms, apple pie, and kittens, but: - Android is clearly more open than iOS, but Epic is also suing Google. So is this really about sideloading? From that suit, it sure doesn't sound like it. - When you do sideload Fortnite on your Android device, from what I understand, you can't actually sideload Fortnite directly. Instead you have sideload... the Epic Games Sto…

The Android suit has different claims in it than the iOS suit. One of the issues with Android is the allegation that Google killed deals Epic was trying to make with Android hardware manufacturers (by voicing objections to the manufacturers, who rely on Google) to get the Epic Store app preinstalled on some Android devices.

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#605

Post by bergstromm466 » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 2:27 AM UTC

mcphage wrote: post #586

Aeolun wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

It's true for every video game console, which have run to up to $600. I'm not sure if $400 makes that much of a difference.

Your game console isn't a pocket-sized multi-purpose computing device with a camera, GPS and more...

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#606

Post by newbie578 » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 2:28 AM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #504

_qulr wrote: post #387

My feeling is that this whole situation is mostly going as Tim Sweeney intended. He was itching for a fight, wanted to sue Apple. The harsher that Apple retaliates, the better Epic's court case. Apple is playing right into his hands. Did Sweeney anticipate Apple's threat to Unreal Engine? Maybe, maybe not. But the temporary restraining order did block that threat, at least for now. I don't think Epic ever intended to…

I can't see how Epic wins this. If Stripe can claim Wells Fargo doesn't want to process porn payments, and that's legal, how can an American court rule for Epic? Epic are obviously going to lose, and lose hard, or set a precedent that's going to screw every payment provider in America and open a flood gate for fraudulent payments. You can't force someone to sell something they don't want to, especially because Apple…

How many times do we have to repeat ourselves regarding Apple and monopoly here on HN.

For the love of god, don't go spouting stuff and saying there is no way Epic can win when your whole premises is simply wrong.

First, learn what a monopoly is. It is when a company has over 50% marketshare in a certain market/industry (although sometimed an even lesser market share is required to call for anti-trust).

Second, learn what is Apple's marketshare in the U.S. Hint: it is around 51%. And no, it doesn't matter if Apple is under 20% worldwide, the U.S. courts don't care for the world's marketshare, but the U.S. market and consumer, just like the EU looks after EU citizens.

Q.E.D. Apple has monopolistic power in the U.S. and needs to be dealt with.

Let's not even get started trying to compare Nintendo and Apple on the same playing field. Try going a week without your Switch, or a week without your smartphone.

Like it or not, having a smartphone in the 21st century has become a necessity and I would dare say a basic modern human right, since are lives are intertwined with it. Our phones have become our wallets, keys, health regulators, entertainment, cameras, connectors to other people and so much more. It has become a tool far too important to leave unchecked.

Sorry If I came as rude, but I am exhausted by people repeating the same (wrong) points in defending Apple and spreading missinformation.

The day Apple feels the hammer of justice, is the day I get drunk and celebrate like New Year's Eve

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#607

Post by jtxx » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 2:28 AM UTC

Uehreka wrote: post #564

ryandrake wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I just don't understand Epic's endgame here. Even if they win, Apple will never let them back on the AppStore. They sued them! If I owned a grocery chain and one of my suppliers sued me, I would never choose to sell their products again in my store, regardless of the outcome. Suing someone is like burning the bridge. What is Epic hoping for here? Unless they are counting on the judge actually forcing a store to…

I would note that Apple and Samsung sue each others pants off over patents, but while their legal departments are fighting it out, the operations folks are making deals where Apple buys billions of components from Samsung for use in their phones. This despite the fact that those phones compete with Samsung’s phones. When two companies are engaged in mutually beneficial relationships, they seem to learn not to take th…

s’all business

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#608

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 2:30 AM UTC

jahewson wrote: post #581

sfifs wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I think is happening is Epic is trying to force a jury trial on anti-trust and won't hold out for a settlement unlike Amazon and Netflix. At this stage all Epic's actions are geared basically around collecting arguments to bring in front of a jury composed of regular folks. I'm very confident the old Steve Jobs emails from the eBooks anti-trust case will also be brought into the trial to argue anti-trust is in A…

Epic can’t force a jury trial on anti-trust (Sherman act violations) - only the US government has standing to even file that kind of suit. What they can do is sue for damages due to breach of contract or similar bad faith which is a risky and not hugely convincing position. You’re quite right that they want a jury trial and to put on a show. But legally this is just a business dispute and arguably one that Epic engin…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#609

Post by Trias11 » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 2:30 AM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #561

_qulr wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iPhone is not a store. The App Store is a store. Epic wants to be on the iPhone, but not necessarily in the App Store. Ideally, Epic wants to run its own store on the iPhone. In any case, App Store is the only store in town, where the "town" is the 1.5 billion iOS users. If there's only 1 store, with no competing stores, that's an entirely different situation legally.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

Apple could sell a brick for $1000.

If one doesn't like it's abilities - don't buy!

Re: Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

#610

Post by mr_toad » Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 2:31 AM UTC

mcphage wrote: post #586

Aeolun wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I bought a $1000 device, but somehow Apple gets to decide what I run on it? I just cannot see how that is a desireable situation.

It's true for every video game console, which have run to up to $600. I'm not sure if $400 makes that much of a difference.

Manufacturers love it. Inkjet printers, coffee makers, cars, vacuum cleaners, laptops. If a manufacturer thinks it can get away with monopolising parts, accessories, and services it will try it.

If Epic does win it could set a very wide-reaching precedent.