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My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

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Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#601

Post by mcny »

ljm wrote: post #490
noobaccount wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, how can we be more like Italy?

It's not just Italy... the entirety of the European continent sets a great example, even acknowledging the corruption that still takes place. The question to the US is: how can they become less insular and more open to ways of living that aren't strictly 'American'? You would think the constitution is now set in stone: societal progression is at a complete halt after committing to a few rules 200 or so years ago. And…

A little off-topic but I thought the meta was you are more likely to be beaten up/tortured by police while in custody in Europe/Asia as opposed to while in custody in the US? I have no experience in these things. Have I misunderstood this?

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#602

Post by nec4b »

variaga wrote: post #452
[deleted] wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

https://247wallst.com/special-report/2020/01/21/25-most-dang... Being a police officer is less dangerous than logging, fishing, flying an airplane, collecting trash, being an electrician, delivery driver, lawn maintenance, roofing, ... . Why is it okay for cops to kill people because they're "scared" when it's not okay for people in any of those other jobs to do so?

Who exactly should the fisherman, logger or law maintenance guy kill?

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#603

Post by chinesempire »

mcny wrote: post #601
ljm wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just Italy... the entirety of the European continent sets a great example, even acknowledging the corruption that still takes place. The question to the US is: how can they become less insular and more open to ways of living that aren't strictly 'American'? You would think the constitution is now set in stone: societal progression is at a complete halt after committing to a few rules 200 or so years ago. And…

A little off-topic but I thought the meta was you are more likely to be beaten up/tortured by police while in custody in Europe/Asia as opposed to while in custody in the US? I have no experience in these things. Have I misunderstood this?

That's false as well.

Look at a Norway prison

Now take a look at an American one

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#604

Post by mac01021 »

aaronblohowiak wrote: post #591
mac01021 wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not _most people_ that I'd. worry about, though.

with 60% of _murders_ going unsolved, do you think the 'deterrent effect' is really preventing the remainder from engaging in antisocial behavior?

Probably not, but those who are already willing to be criminals in situations where they won't be caught would now be able to act with wild abandon, or execute much grander schemes with relative impunity.

60% of murders go unsolved because a sane murderer does not commit a murder that would be easy to solve. I'm sure many tempting, high-reward murders do not happen because they can't be committed without an ensuing police investigation.

Suppose 1% of people are currently criminals (I don't know the real number). Without an authority investigating and punishing crimes, that number might increase to 1.1% or even 2%. But a small fraction of those would likely increase their criminal behavior by an order of magnitude.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#605

Post by dragonwriter »

khc wrote: post #481
_bxg1 wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

George Zimmerman was not a police officer

George Zimmerman was part of neighborhood watch, what do you think will replace police?

> what do you think will replace police

A variety of domain-specialized community services organizations, many of which will have enforcement components, some armed, and probably at least one of which is investigatory/enforcement focussed, but no single monolithic paramilitary organization.

Not a neighborhood watch, but more like how federal law enforcement, and despite the fact that “state police” organizations do exist, that of most states, is organized.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#606

Post by austincheney »

burner831234 wrote: post #412
austincheney wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife has asked them about it. I have not myself as I have been away on military service since the beginning of May. I think the reasoning for most people in the area is that police interventions motivated by systemic racism are not a visible concern in my area of the city but that they could be a concern, which is fairly distant. Perhaps if this were any other year such concerns could really stand on their own, bu…

You could also ask the people you serve with. I believe a chomsky approach to our lives is very important. Its useful to have a diverse set of friends and colleagues because through multiple view points you have a chance at understanding more of the world.

Military people have had stories about police interactions for years and a large number of reservists and national guardsmen work for civilian police departments.

Police are generally highly biased in favor of military personnel regardless of their skin color outside of military base communities. For example if a person is pulled over, regardless of the validity of the stop or whether racial profiling is at play, the person is likely to drive away with only a warning if the officer happens to see a military ID and the person remains calm and polite. Military people have been sharing these stories for years.

Until I started working at the big bank the military is by far the most diverse group I have ever worked with.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#607

Post by austincheney »

glitcher wrote: post #474
austincheney wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am advocating for data and accountability over agreement and hysteria. It appears, to me, you are equating my lack of immediate agreement to bad faith.

Agreement is not the goal of discussions or debate. Perhaps if you articulated your advocacy for data and accountability with a little more substance earlier on we would be enjoying a more productive debate about the issue.

My experience with social media is that the goal is purely social reinforcement, not discussion. Typically HN is better than that but purely political threads like this with absolutely no technology or business focus tend to draw out people not primarily focused on discussion. That is why I deleted my Reddit account. Here is an example from this thread where a commenter, in their own words, is distressed only that I don’t just agree: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23617015

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#608

Post by austincheney »

WealthVsSurvive wrote: post #567
austincheney wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never been to NYC so I am certainly not saying anything about the problem in NYC.

We can quote stats about police violence all day long, but in nearly every personal story, it usually ends with "and then the cops just did nothing and there wasn't a paper trail." I have 4 stories,4 witness accounts, and not a single one went or would have gone anywhere. That's not a small problem. And, they're in every state, in every county. This is a mafia.

I prefer data over social media stories.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#609

Post by krick »

dhosek wrote: post #70
jeffbee wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it also seem weird to you that small countries have intelligence bureaus? Denmark and Finland are both less populous than New York City.

So then Walmart should have a spy agency because they're bigger than some countries?

Funny enough, I find this purposefully exaggerated example not exaggerated enough. It seems to me there is much more reason for Walmart have a spy agency than for NYPD. After all, if NYPD has a reason to be involved with a foreign entity, there are federal agencies (most prominently NSA and CIA) that supposedly should handle these matters (though what they really do nobody knows). NYPD exists only to serve NY, and NY is a part of USA.

Walmart, on the other hand, isn't exactly a part of USA, and if it needs to spy on somebody, it would have to rely on their own internal capacity.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#610

Post by anoonmoose »

michaelmrose wrote: post #523
anoonmoose wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many, many, many more people in the US are shooting themselves or others than getting shot by police. We're talking like, 1K per year shot by cops versus 100 PER DAY of overall gun murder/suicide. Yes, police violence is a problem, but the 1K shot by cops is mostly an artifact of our crazy high overall gun violence problem. Edit: so, to summarize, yes, I do think that our crazy high number of people shot by police pe…

Lets start with the actual number of gun related homicides per day 40. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm You are comparing the number of gun deaths in 2 populations and concluding that the difference in total deaths indicates a commensurate increase in dangerous situations faced by officers. Your inclusion of gun suicides makes it extremely difficult to be charitable with your interpretation. Greater gun…

I agree with everything you said and I don't feel like our comments are in dispute- I don't think cops are killing people because we have so much murder and suicide, I think that we have a violent and gun obsessed country, and that shows itself through high levels of police violence, murder, and suicide.

Edit: as such, I would remove the "because of" part of the last sentence of my previous comment, and leave the "strongly related to". My bad.

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