Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

propublica.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

571–580 of 650 posts

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#571

Post by dredmorbius »

FireBeyond wrote: post #397
hundchenkatze wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several years ago I was test driving a car owned by a cop in rural Tennessee. He was riding with me and I turned onto a smaller road with a 45mph speed limit. I was taking it slow and easy when he said "ah don't worry about the speed limit, I've got an E-Tag, let's go" I didn't know what an E-Tag was at the time but apparently it's an "Emergency Vehicle" tag given to officers to put on their unmarked, personal vehicl…

You can get FOP bumper stickers etc., in some states to show your civilian "support" (financial, and otherwise) of police. You can also buy them on eBay, unofficially. Of course, the police unions have gone after sellers there, for some reason. In one state the union went so far as issuing registration-like tags for your FOP bumper sticker, so that if a cop was pulling you over, he'd know whether you were "paid up",…

11-99 Foundation in California, by persistent legend:

https://priceonomics.com/can-you-buy-a-license-to-speed/

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#572

Post by thephyber »

randompwd wrote: post #381
thephyber wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but chose to act like an idiot Do people choose to have panic attacks? There are lots of documented cases of people who have panic attacks on planes and flip out. Are they "idiots" in your mind?

How is she having a panic attack? How is anything about her behaviour that night congruous to a panic attack? Seems like you're just writing an alternative narrative to explain away her behaviour.

The point isn't that I know she's having a panic attack. I'm not trying to force that to be the circumstance.

But she could very well be having a legitimate physiological response (of which a panic attack could be one)... in which case she's not "being an idiot". As long as it was a good faith emotional response, your conclusions still aren't warranted.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#573

Post by Pfhreak »

DenisM wrote: post #560
Pfhreak wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, here's a handful: https://komonews.com/news/local/police-union-president-defen... https://mynorthwest.com/70234/police-union-head-vehemently-d... https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/07/13/se... https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/memo-seattle... http://www.courts.wa.gov/content/publicupload/eclips/2015%20... https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/article64596437.ht... https://www.…

Clicked the last link from your list, see this: The two were already struggling when Levias' friend, a 17-year-old, pushed the officer, and he responded by punching the friend in the face. Is this the sort of thing you consider outrageous?

Outrageous is your word. Have you seen the video? The cop full on decks a woman who gives his arm a light push. It's definitely out of line, he's not trying to defuse the situation, he's grappling another woman and is clearly out of control of the situation.

This continues a pattern of excessive force from the dept. From the Justice Department's findings on the SPD:

> Our investigation finds repeated uses of excessive force for charges related to minor offenses, including pedestrian interference, obstruction, open container violations, jaywalking, and shoplifting. In a number of incidents, failure to use tactics designed to de-escalate a situation, led to increased and unnecessary force.

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/crt/legacy/2011/...

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#574

Post by jacques_chester »

dragonwriter wrote: post #253
pierrebai wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Resisting arrest should not lead to death. There is no urgency to shoot someone who is drunk in the back as he is fleeing when you have his car in your possession. Polices are using unnecessarily lethal force indiscriminately for offenses and in situations that don't require in the least. They have been getting positive reinforcement by being not prosecuted and being protected by their force and the system in general…

> They have been getting positive reinforcement by being not prosecuted and being protected by their force and the system in general. Also, a number of cases have come out recently of police were disciplined, including dismissals, for reporting or intervening against excessive use of force by other cops, so there is negative reinforcement for good cops as well as positive reinforcement for the bad ones.

A nitpick.

"Positive" and "negative" in reinforcement don't mean "good, pleasant, desired" and "bad, unpleasant, not desired". They mean "something was added" and "something was taken away". Better names would be "additive" and "subtractive".

The term for "good, pleasant, desired" is "reinforcement", for "bad, unpleasant, not desired" is punishment.

So:

Positive reinforcement --> Behaviour leads to addition of pleasurable stimulus. Eg. Press button, receive food.

Negative reinforcement --> Behaviour leads to removal of unpleasant stimulus. Eg. Press button, persistent loud noise is muted.

Positive punishment --> Behaviour leads to addition of unpleasant stimulus. Eg. Press button, loud noise begins.

Negative punishment --> Behaviour leads to removal of pleasant stimulus. Eg. Press button, food is taken away.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#575

Post by sagarm »

sudosysgen wrote: post #372
justforyou wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civil Forfeiture means private property can be a liability unless one has a lot of extra liquidity to fund a legal defense.

Civil asset forfeiture only matters for personal property. Private property, such as investments, stakes in ventures, and so on, is not affected by civil asset forfeiture. I've never seen anyone have their business seized without trial, but people have had their houses destroyed without trial.

They've tried: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323539804578264...

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#576

Post by washadjeffmad »

thayne wrote: post #555
flarg wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take issue with your framing of the police as criminals because it misses the point; the police are not criminals, the law and the legal establishment fully supports their actions. Those actions are institutionally racist as they are intended to be. There are no bad apples here, it's the barrel that is rotten.

On the contrary. Many of these actions are illegal, sometimes even unconstitutional. There may be other laws that make it difficult, or impossible to actually enforce laws against police brutality, but that doesn't change the fact that police officers are breaking the law.

'Criminals' is better be read as enemies or threats. It's used as a catch-all term for people who would do you and your loved ones harm without remorse.

If the tables were turned and the police were no longer the servants of the white community, how might that look?

Patrol cars driving around suburbs at night blasting sirens then arresting people who came out to complain. Harassing middle class white dads mowing their lawns by telling them to stop and go inside, then escalating into one-sided physical altercations requiring reinforcements. Ticketing mom groups for loitering and trespassing for congregating to chat on sidewalks with baby strollers on front of their homes, or threatening them with CPS. Breaking into homes and shooting pets and family members of kids who brought home pot, or their neighbors if they show up at the wrong house.

Who would these people call to complain to if no one else cared? How would these communities look after years of being afraid? Of having to accept that their lives were forfeit and losing loved ones to the police was just a fact of life?

Unfortunately, we already know.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#577

Post by thephyber »

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #526
pjc50 wrote: post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

I'm a BLM supporter. And think the police need massive reform. I'd love to see their unions busted up to boot. But if we're going off statistics... Black people are more likely to die or be injured from other black people more than they are by cops. By, like, a lot. this article showcases how impervious cops are to taking responsibility, especially against the poor and powerless. But your comment of being more afraid…

> Black people are more likely to die or be injured from other black people more than they are by cops.

> reeks of Americans being more scared of terrorism than heart disease

I'd like to point out it's not just any black people that are most likely to kill/injure others. There is a very small subset (likely less than 1%) of the population. In that way, being deathly afraid of other black people in the USA, being deathly afraid of police in the USA, and being deathly afraid of terrorists in the USA are all irrational (or at least disproportionate) fears.

That said, we don't tell people their fears of lightning are unfounded or disproportionate to furniture falling on them. Using pure statistics against a limbic system response isn't particularly useful. Your limbic system remains fearful, even if your cognitive brain knows the odds don't require that same level of fear.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#578

Post by vertex-four »

treis wrote: post #363
jakelazaroff wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what "walking catalogue of locally available illicit substances" is a reference to, as that describes none of the recent police murders AFAIK. Also FYI, in the case of Rayshard Brooks (the victim who took the officer's Taser), the District Attorney said that the Taser "had already been fired twice and was thus empty and no longer a threat". https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-nw-atlanta-ra...

That's misleading to the point of lying. The "already" here means the split second between Brooks firing it at the officer and the officer shooting him.

I’ll point out, by the way, that a taser is one of these “non-lethal” weapons with which we should be fine with cops firing at groups of protesters indiscriminately. But apparently when someone uses one against a cop it’s worth the immediate death penalty. I wonder what’d happen if a protester shot a cop with a rubber bullet?

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#579

Post by aaronblohowiak »

mac01021 wrote: post #482
aaronblohowiak wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only 60% of murders are solved. https://www.vox.com/2018/9/24/17896034/murder-crime-clearanc...

Are you suggesting that, because of this, the existence of the police is not the main deterrent to crime?

a few years ago, I getting a beer after work with a colleague. we had become friends and talked about quite a bit outside of work. As the topic of religion had come up in the past, it was not unusual for us to discuss. He was a devout Christian (some kind of protestant) and I am a self-described "athiest Catholic". At a certain lull in the conversation after a couple beers, he leaned in to me and asked in a hushed tone: "so, if you don't believe in hell, why be a good person?" I put my drink down and looked him in the eye and said "that's the scariest thing I've ever heard."

Plainly, I don't believe in deterrence as effective or a substantial reason why most people don't engage in bad behavior.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#580

Post by mac01021 »

aaronblohowiak wrote: post #579
mac01021 wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that, because of this, the existence of the police is not the main deterrent to crime?

a few years ago, I getting a beer after work with a colleague. we had become friends and talked about quite a bit outside of work. As the topic of religion had come up in the past, it was not unusual for us to discuss. He was a devout Christian (some kind of protestant) and I am a self-described "athiest Catholic". At a certain lull in the conversation after a couple beers, he leaned in to me and asked in a hushed to…

It's not _most people_ that I'd. worry about, though.
Post reply on HN