Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#61

Post by jiggy2011 » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:15 PM UTC

The most disturbing thing about the way I have seen this reported is as some war between feminists and software engineers. This seems to be a popular narrative on the non-tech blogs.

In other words attributing all of the threats, DDOS etc to the sort of people who go to pycon.

So that means there are two possibilities.

1) It is common for the sort of people who attend pycon and write relatively sensible posts on HN also engage in this sort of behaviour. I hope this is not true, and mostly doubt it but if it is then this is something deeply disturbing.

2) We are letting the sort of people who frequent 4chan and "men's rights" blogs act as representatives of the software community.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#62

Post by vor_ » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:15 PM UTC

criley wrote: post #18

I hate the idea that she's getting death threats and insults because of her gender. That's wrong. It's not because of her gender. It's because she's a notable figure on the internet. I challenge the reader to find any notable figure online who has held a controversial position and not been the target of death threats. That is an Internet anonymity problem, not a gender problem! Women are not the only targets of anony…

> I hate the idea that she's getting death threats and insults because of her gender. That's wrong. It's not because of her gender.

The initial backlash against her was genuine and came from both men and women.

The trolling is from 4chan and the like, with the awareness that it will get seriously reported by sites like VentureBeat. It's like the "over 9000 penises" troll that Oprah Winfrey fell for. We've all been on the internet long enough to know what's going on.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#63

Post by vodafet » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:16 PM UTC

I don't agree with those sending her threats, but this article makes Adria out to be a saint. She completely and totally mishandled the situation. More over, her reaction fits her modus operandi. I would never, ever hire someone like this. I think she is vile.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#64

Post by rabino » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:17 PM UTC

esbwhat wrote: post #34

maudineormsby wrote: post #12

Sorry, but I don't think the conference organizers overreacted. They did exactly what they were supposed to do under the CoC - they received a complaint, and addressed it discreetly. If they hadn't taken it seriously, and just said 'cool it', then they'd be guilty of not taking their own CoC seriously. And they didn't kick the guy out, or anything like that - it was basically a verbal warning, but done formally so th…

I also don't think Adria overreacted. It was a microaggression. Jokes like that foster the uncomfortable boys club environment that is so inherent to tech. Were the jokes explicitly sexist? No, but in an industry that has more than just a bad track record, stuff like that is not okay. Context matters.

Really? You can't make a dongle joke in public because of... what? Are women so fragile and weak that they are offended by a mildly sexual joke? Who's the sexist again?

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#65

Post by mladenkovacevic » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:18 PM UTC

czr80 wrote: post #53

pekk wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

white men are never sent death threats, are you sure?

What white men never get, and this is just an observation, I have no sides or deep interest in this mess, is a comment like: "this makes me re-think hiring white men, they're not worth the drama". I've seen a few of those around the place regarding Ms Richards.

Also if a man did this, it wouldn't even register on the internet's "burn-the-hypocrite" scale and I would actually be able to read something else on HN.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#66

Post by TheZenPsycho » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:18 PM UTC

njharman wrote: post #51

logjam wrote: post #5

The irrational venom and utter cowardice of those who attacked this woman and her supporters, including here on HN, shouldn't be surprising, but somehow it still is. Tech? I would have thought better of arguably among the most "rational" humans. Yet another lesson in how close to the surface very primitive emotions lie. And tech remains a cesspool of mysogyny.

She was kind of a douche. You don't get a pass for being a douche just because you're female (or anything else). If that's irrational, venomous, and cowardly I'll wear those labels proudly.

you will cast your lot in with the dudes threatening rape and death?

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#67

Post by tunesmith » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:19 PM UTC

criley wrote: post #18

I hate the idea that she's getting death threats and insults because of her gender. That's wrong. It's not because of her gender. It's because she's a notable figure on the internet. I challenge the reader to find any notable figure online who has held a controversial position and not been the target of death threats. That is an Internet anonymity problem, not a gender problem! Women are not the only targets of anony…

"If it was a black man being insulted and threatened, guess the language they'd use."

uh... racist language?

So wait, if I get riled up about something for non-racist reasons, but then use racist language... I'm not racist? I get a pass?

Don't confuse your argument. You're saying that her gender is not SUFFICIENT for why she's getting those threats. Fine. But don't make the case that her actions were sufficient alone; that her gender (or race) has nothing to do with it. That just defends anyone who wants to use racist or sexist language any time they get bent out of shape about something.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#68

Post by ucvbjk » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:19 PM UTC

onemorepassword wrote: post #45

Comparing her to Kathy Sierra is insulting. Kathy Sierra was an innocent victim. Richards used her position to bully others. Yes, the backlash is distasteful and disproportionate, but if you're the one gleefully lighting the fire you are not just the victim if you get burned yourself.

I think you are incorrect to use the word "bully" to describe the situation, with all its negative connotations. It implies that her end goal was intimidation, rather than the more noble path of trying to ensure a safe space free of sexually-charged behaviour - which was indeed one of the stated goals of the conference in its code of conduct.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#69

Post by theorique » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:22 PM UTC

tunesmith wrote: post #67

criley wrote: post #18

I hate the idea that she's getting death threats and insults because of her gender. That's wrong. It's not because of her gender. It's because she's a notable figure on the internet. I challenge the reader to find any notable figure online who has held a controversial position and not been the target of death threats. That is an Internet anonymity problem, not a gender problem! Women are not the only targets of anony…

"If it was a black man being insulted and threatened, guess the language they'd use." uh... racist language? So wait, if I get riled up about something for non-racist reasons, but then use racist language... I'm not racist? I get a pass? Don't confuse your argument. You're saying that her gender is not SUFFICIENT for why she's getting those threats. Fine. But don't make the case that her actions were sufficient alone…

No, you're still a racist, you just weren't a premeditated racist.

A person choosing the most obvious, vicious, and personal way to insult and hurt someone is still guilty of acting prejudiced. Just because they would have used a different way to attack a different person does not get them off the hook for what they actually did.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#70

Post by pyre » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:23 PM UTC

mladenkovacevic wrote: post #58

pyre wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've never seen Anonymous go nuclear on white supremacists? Or back when they were trolling Tom Green's live web show? etc. The fact that this is a "Women in Tech" issue is what generated so much publicity, and the publicity is what draws the trolls. If two posters on 4chan's /b/ board had some exchange where one named-and-shamed the other over a penis joke, and he ended up losing his job? I don't think it's hard t…

The difference is in the scale. I bet if you compared their campaign of "going nuclear" on white supremacists it would register but a blip compared to what's going on here. And it IS because she is a woman... and also because she's black. Those two probably each increase the measure of the e-mob response exponentially.

  | I bet if you compared their campaign of
  | "going nuclear" on white supremacists it
  | would register but a blip compared to what's
  | going on here.

What is it that makes what's going on here worse than anything else? The DDoS attacks? The threats? The volume of threats? Has she been SWAT'd[1]? (I'm not heavily invested in this mess, so maybe I'm missing something)

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatting