Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#51

Post by njharman » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:08 PM UTC

logjam wrote: post #5

The irrational venom and utter cowardice of those who attacked this woman and her supporters, including here on HN, shouldn't be surprising, but somehow it still is. Tech? I would have thought better of arguably among the most "rational" humans. Yet another lesson in how close to the surface very primitive emotions lie. And tech remains a cesspool of mysogyny.

She was kind of a douche. You don't get a pass for being a douche just because you're female (or anything else).

If that's irrational, venomous, and cowardly I'll wear those labels proudly.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#52

Post by louisfriend03 » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:09 PM UTC

Regardless whether Adria was a male or female, her actions - dragging SendGrid (and claiming they backed her action) - into this mess, left SendGrid with little option.

So let's not over react with these claims of over reactions? And I don't agree PyCon over reacted either.

Adria made a bad decision and PlayHaven was the only party to over react, IMHO.

And the internet is just being the internet. Same as it ever was for the past years.

Stop trying to make this about sexism - it's not going to happen.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#53

Post by czr80 » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:10 PM UTC

pekk wrote: post #30

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain how this situation would have worked if, instead of Adria, the original tweeter/picture-poster had been a white, heterosexual, Protestant man.

white men are never sent death threats, are you sure?

What white men never get, and this is just an observation, I have no sides or deep interest in this mess, is a comment like: "this makes me re-think hiring white men, they're not worth the drama". I've seen a few of those around the place regarding Ms Richards.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#54

Post by prodigal_erik » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:10 PM UTC

> Do we now live in a culture where there are no second chances, where there’s no ability to call a Mulligan, get a do-over, or just have a bad day?

We already have been for a long time. This is not a problem with nerd culture but with legal and HR culture. She basically branded "hostile environment lawsuit risk" across his forehead, and he's instantly so untouchable that PlayHaven couldn't safely retain him. I could understand him maybe wanting revenge once it sinks in just how fucked he is within the US, I just don't get the ridiculous threats from people who weren't involved.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#55

Post by citricsquid » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:10 PM UTC

    But SendGrid had another option. Its leaders could have taken a leadership role. 
    Maybe create a forum to talk about this issue.

Not a bad suggestion, after all if they had not fired her they wouldn't have had a business left and they would need something to do, a forum to moderate sounds like just the ticket. Maybe they could have put up adverts to offset the lost income from their real business.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#56

Post by baltcode » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:10 PM UTC

This needs to stop. Going back to the origin: yes, inappropriate comments, language etc. does not belong in professional life it makes someone uncomfortable. The only way this will be changed is with understanding and civility. It was an over-reaction to fire the developer. Adria Richard's continual insistence on only addressing what she felt were inappropriate and sexist jokes and no attention that his firing had made it into something else was not helpful. I think Sendgrid and Adria should have been seen trying to mend bridges at that point. Instead, it seems everyone is continuing to behave extremely arrogantly as if they are perfect. That seems to be how PlayHaven, Sendgrid, Adria, and the trolls are behaving.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#57

Post by 650REDHAIR » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:11 PM UTC

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #24

criley wrote: post #18

I hate the idea that she's getting death threats and insults because of her gender. That's wrong. It's not because of her gender. It's because she's a notable figure on the internet. I challenge the reader to find any notable figure online who has held a controversial position and not been the target of death threats. That is an Internet anonymity problem, not a gender problem! Women are not the only targets of anony…

Please explain how this situation would have worked if, instead of Adria, the original tweeter/picture-poster had been a white, heterosexual, Protestant man.

After spending some time online I'm guessing the response would be pretty much the same, but with more "fag" comments.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#58

Post by mladenkovacevic » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:11 PM UTC

pyre wrote: post #37

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain how this situation would have worked if, instead of Adria, the original tweeter/picture-poster had been a white, heterosexual, Protestant man.

You've never seen Anonymous go nuclear on white supremacists? Or back when they were trolling Tom Green's live web show? etc. The fact that this is a "Women in Tech" issue is what generated so much publicity, and the publicity is what draws the trolls. If two posters on 4chan's /b/ board had some exchange where one named-and-shamed the other over a penis joke, and he ended up losing his job? I don't think it's hard t…

The difference is in the scale.

I bet if you compared their campaign of "going nuclear" on white supremacists it would register but a blip compared to what's going on here.

And it IS because she is a woman... and also because she's black. Those two probably each increase the measure of the e-mob response exponentially.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#59

Post by ucvbjk » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:12 PM UTC

criley wrote: post #18

I hate the idea that she's getting death threats and insults because of her gender. That's wrong. It's not because of her gender. It's because she's a notable figure on the internet. I challenge the reader to find any notable figure online who has held a controversial position and not been the target of death threats. That is an Internet anonymity problem, not a gender problem! Women are not the only targets of anony…

Your axiom that gender is only an issue in choosing the language of abuse, rather than choosing to abuse, is unsupported. It's been demonstrated time and time again that there is a special type of vitriol reserved for empowered women in technology by certain types of men (who are, presumably, insecure about having a women 'interfere' in 'their' spaces).

For a man to receive comparable treatment, he would have to have committed much greater transgressions in the eyes of such socially maladjusted, bigoted hackers - for example, Bill Gates at the height of his anti-Linux, monopoly-abusing role. And even then, such specialities as rape and other gendered violence would not be forthcoming.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#60

Post by baltcode » Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 9:15 PM UTC

louisfriend03 wrote: post #52

Regardless whether Adria was a male or female, her actions - dragging SendGrid (and claiming they backed her action) - into this mess, left SendGrid with little option. So let's not over react with these claims of over reactions? And I don't agree PyCon over reacted either. Adria made a bad decision and PlayHaven was the only party to over react, IMHO. And the internet is just being the internet. Same as it ever was…

The right thing for Sendgrid to do was to try to appear conciliatory to the person who just lost a job. If Adria was not ready to do that, then Sendgrid had to fire her. Similarly, the Playhaven dev, had he been given a chance needed to apologize and Playhaven had to fire him if he didn't.