Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife • Hacker News Board

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#61

Post by graeham » Tue, Nov 27, 2012, 5:29 AM UTC

aufreak3 wrote: post #44

chimeracoder wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It shows that people are complicated and multifaceted. While we have a tendency to either laud or vilify figures (with nothing in between), in reality, historical figures can be both "good" and "bad" in different aspects of their lives... just like the rest of us. My favorite example of…

It is more complicated I think even in the case of Einstein. The period of strained relationship mentioned coincides with the period during which he was building up General Relativity (which he published in 1916). Given the intensity of work that would've been needed for that (all that gorgeous new math and physical insights!) with wrong turns to avoid in every move, it is well conceivable that his marriage was place…

I'm glad I searched before posting something similar. General Relatively is one of the greatest individual efforts in the history of science. I do think there is something noble about the self-isolation and dedication to his work that Einstein is reported to have had. While the list demonstrates somewhat anti-social behavior, espessially by today's standards, its unfortunate that the context is missing from the article.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#62

Post by ekianjo » Tue, Nov 27, 2012, 5:33 AM UTC

victorhn wrote: post #39

ekianjo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I am missing something but since when was Einstein considered as a "popular folk hero" ? I have never heard of him portrayed as anything but a renowned scientist (with controversial political views).

You must live in another world, as Einstein is maybe the most popular scientist/genius in any part of the world.

I do not question the popularity of Einstein, I just wonder why the term "hero" is applied to him in the parent post. Why would Einstein be considered a "hero" compared to other scientists ?

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#63

Post by georgeorwell » Tue, Nov 27, 2012, 5:34 AM UTC

hgnb wrote: post #49

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It's interesting how much we want our heroes to be pure and spotless -- unlike any other humans we encounter.

As a sole breadwinner,married to a woman who belittles me in front of our children, who, despite having full-time domestic help, grudgingly provides me with meals, who swings between extreme emotional neediness and rejection for weeks at a time and who occasionally physically attacks me in rages (she was diagnosed with a psychological disorder, but treatment is blocked by her family), I wish I could produce a list li…

Assuming you truly have the desire to change things and that you actually want help, here is some unsolicited advice: go into individual therapy for yourself and if possible try to start couple's therapy too. Look for long-term once-a-week therapy and don't be afraid to shop around for therapists because it's important that you like the person.

If that seems too daunting, order The Emotionally Abusive Relationship by Beverly Engel or get it out of the library. It's a good starting point and in general books written by therapists are a great complement to therapy.

http://www.amazon.com/Emotionally-Abusive-Relationship-Abuse...

If not for yourself, do this for your children, who suffer as much as you - if only because you and your wife are so important to them - but are helpless to change the situation.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#64

Post by noonespecial » Tue, Nov 27, 2012, 5:40 AM UTC

sethbannon wrote: post #48

The entire site is, unfortunately for productivity, a treasure trove of interesting historical lists. For instance: http://www.listsofnote.com/2012/04/simple-rules-for-life-in-...

My favorite:

F × S = k. The product of Freedom and Security is a constant. To gain more freedom of thought and/or action, you must give up some security, and vice versa. These remarks apply to individuals, nations, and civilizations. Notice that the constant k is different for every civilization and different for every individual.

  --Larry Niven

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#65

Post by trentmb » Tue, Nov 27, 2012, 6:01 AM UTC

mylittlepony wrote: post #19

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering Einstein didn't kill anyone...he did OK. No one is a saint (except for maybe a saint, but then I've heard crazy things about Mother Teresa also).

Yeah, he only helped to build the most destructive weapon ever.

And the Wright brothers helped develop the craft the bomb would be carried on. What a couple of no good murderers they were.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#66

Post by andrewfelix » Tue, Nov 27, 2012, 6:12 AM UTC

stickfigure wrote: post #43

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It's interesting how much we want our heroes to be pure and spotless -- unlike any other humans we encounter.

Why do you automatically assume he is a jerk? Do you know more about his personal life than what was mentioned here? How do we know she wasn't a horrible person and this is actually a gracious response? I really have no idea, but I think it's pretty unfair to make character judgements from a single note out of context. Human relationships are complex.

The OP is making a judgement based on the evidence he has, not on the evidence he doesn't. You on the other hand are attempting to counter his argument with no evidence at all.

If you want to counter the argument, present contrary evidence.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#67

Post by unreal37 » Tue, Nov 27, 2012, 6:15 AM UTC

zoba wrote: post #56

Differently from most other comments, I didn't see this as Einstein being a jerk. I more feel compassion for him since, to me, this list is like an admission of his solitude. It must be quite lonely being so unique as Einstein. Most people have a hard enough time finding someone who they can relate to. When you're as publicly distinguished as he was I imagine finding someone to relate to must've felt entirely hopeles…

Now way off topic, but I don't think Steve Jobs is comparable to Einstein in the same way. Einstein needed long months of solitude to come up with his formulas, which must have been brutal on his family and friend relationships. Steve Jobs had other people execute his vision.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#68

Post by unreal37 » Tue, Nov 27, 2012, 6:17 AM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #42

tadfisher wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily; their mothers were sisters, and their fathers were cousins on their father's side (so both Albert and Elsa had the surname "Einstein").

Funny that when we think of inbreeding we think of low IQ as one of the common characteristics.

Albert Einstein was not himself imbred. His mother and father were not related before marriage.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#69

Post by unreal37 » Tue, Nov 27, 2012, 6:18 AM UTC

illuminate wrote: post #38

saheel1511 wrote: post #28

I see lots of people commenting how Einstein was a jerk, etc. But somehow, I think that list (if it's real) just shows that he wanted order (and control?) in everything he did, which doesn't resonate as bad to me. We have no idea what kind of relationship he had with his wife, so I think it is unfair to judge him like that solely based on that list, more so, because his wife accepted it!

"more so, because his wife accepted it" That people cope with emotional abuse in different ways does not justify emotional abuse. As plenty of people mentioned in the thread, this was a different time when women had less possibilities and support systems for themselves.

We have no way of knowing WHO was the emotional abuser, or even if any emotional abuse was going on. That's quite a leap from what we know.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#70

Post by seanmcdirmid » Tue, Nov 27, 2012, 6:24 AM UTC

georgeorwell wrote: post #63

hgnb wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a sole breadwinner,married to a woman who belittles me in front of our children, who, despite having full-time domestic help, grudgingly provides me with meals, who swings between extreme emotional neediness and rejection for weeks at a time and who occasionally physically attacks me in rages (she was diagnosed with a psychological disorder, but treatment is blocked by her family), I wish I could produce a list li…

Assuming you truly have the desire to change things and that you actually want help, here is some unsolicited advice: go into individual therapy for yourself and if possible try to start couple's therapy too. Look for long-term once-a-week therapy and don't be afraid to shop around for therapists because it's important that you like the person. If that seems too daunting, order The Emotionally Abusive Relationship by…

If mental illness is involved, you'll need more than just therapy. Treatment, patience, and...luck? Anyways, this isn't the place for relationship advice, and we are hardly qualified to give it.