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Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

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Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#41

Post by zachinglis »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It's interesting how much we want our heroes to be pure and spotless -- unlike any other humans we encounter.

The man was highly intelligent. Often intelligence and social skills seesaw (obviously not always.) What he did was wrong by what we know now, but I don't think it came from malice.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#42

Post by ams6110 »

tadfisher wrote: post #21
sopooneo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If their fathers were first cousins, wouldn't that make them second cousins?

Not necessarily; their mothers were sisters, and their fathers were cousins on their father's side (so both Albert and Elsa had the surname "Einstein").

Funny that when we think of inbreeding we think of low IQ as one of the common characteristics.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#43

Post by stickfigure »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It's interesting how much we want our heroes to be pure and spotless -- unlike any other humans we encounter.

Why do you automatically assume he is a jerk? Do you know more about his personal life than what was mentioned here? How do we know she wasn't a horrible person and this is actually a gracious response?

I really have no idea, but I think it's pretty unfair to make character judgements from a single note out of context. Human relationships are complex.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#44

Post by aufreak3 »

chimeracoder wrote: post #26
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It's interesting how much we want our heroes to be pure and spotless -- unlike any other humans we encounter.

> Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It shows that people are complicated and multifaceted. While we have a tendency to either laud or vilify figures (with nothing in between), in reality, historical figures can be both "good" and "bad" in different aspects of their lives... just like the rest of us. My favorite example of…

It is more complicated I think even in the case of Einstein. The period of strained relationship mentioned coincides with the period during which he was building up General Relativity (which he published in 1916). Given the intensity of work that would've been needed for that (all that gorgeous new math and physical insights!) with wrong turns to avoid in every move, it is well conceivable that his marriage was placed at risk. This list might even have been his way of expressing that his life priority is finding a unified theory of everything.

Now when I write that, does our welcoming of his great contributions need to make us guilty of also endorsing morals we perceive behind this "list of demands" he made of his wife?

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#45

Post by leak »

nthitz wrote: post #5

"They eventually divorced in 1919, having lived apart for five years." Surprise surprise...

Also, the only way she would give him a divorce is by him offering her the Nobel Prize money he knew he would one day win for his work in physics. She took a gamble and gave him the divorce.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#46

Post by refurb »

scarmig wrote: post #6
davesmylie wrote: post #4

It's hard to reconcile the popular folk hero that is Einstein with a letter like this. I suspect a lot of this may come from us not being in a position to judge people from almost 100 years by the standards of today.

I suspect that even a century ago that list of demands would have been seen as very cold and mean.

We don't really know the back story is I guess.

I could see if their relationship had completely fallen apart by this point, but that they both wanted to stay together even though they were no longer in love, that a couple could come up with ground rules like this.

Who knows what her list of demands for him were?

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#47

Post by randomdata »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It's interesting how much we want our heroes to be pure and spotless -- unlike any other humans we encounter.

I have to say, I didn't really come away with the "demanding jerk" impression at all.

She wanted him to stay for the kids and continue to provide for the family. In return, he wanted some help around the house and to ensure emotional disconnect from the relationship that was already dead by this point. I expect couples today would form similar arrangements in the same situation.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#49

Post by hgnb »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It's interesting how much we want our heroes to be pure and spotless -- unlike any other humans we encounter.

As a sole breadwinner,married to a woman who belittles me in front of our children, who, despite having full-time domestic help, grudgingly provides me with meals, who swings between extreme emotional neediness and rejection for weeks at a time and who occasionally physically attacks me in rages (she was diagnosed with a psychological disorder, but treatment is blocked by her family), I wish I could produce a list like that.

I don't know if Einstein's marriage was similar to mine. Maybe he was a demanding jerk, but the possibility does exist that he was reacting to the circumstances he found himself in.

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