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Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

listsofnote.com

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Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#51

Post by randomdata »

illuminate wrote: post #38
saheel1511 wrote: post #28

I see lots of people commenting how Einstein was a jerk, etc. But somehow, I think that list (if it's real) just shows that he wanted order (and control?) in everything he did, which doesn't resonate as bad to me. We have no idea what kind of relationship he had with his wife, so I think it is unfair to judge him like that solely based on that list, more so, because his wife accepted it!

"more so, because his wife accepted it" That people cope with emotional abuse in different ways does not justify emotional abuse. As plenty of people mentioned in the thread, this was a different time when women had less possibilities and support systems for themselves.

She couldn't really expect him to be the sole breadwinner for the family, and do all the housework, and be always there for her emotional needs. There has to be some give and take. I'm not sure why his request for a reasonably equitable partnership would be considered abuse?

These are, most likely, the issues that lead to the demise of the relationship in the first place. It is the only way their living arrangement would be able to continue at all.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#52

Post by kevinconroy »

hgnb wrote: post #49
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It's interesting how much we want our heroes to be pure and spotless -- unlike any other humans we encounter.

As a sole breadwinner,married to a woman who belittles me in front of our children, who, despite having full-time domestic help, grudgingly provides me with meals, who swings between extreme emotional neediness and rejection for weeks at a time and who occasionally physically attacks me in rages (she was diagnosed with a psychological disorder, but treatment is blocked by her family), I wish I could produce a list li…

From one husband to another, hang in there man and in all sincerity, best of luck.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#53

Post by wellpast »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It's interesting how much we want our heroes to be pure and spotless -- unlike any other humans we encounter.

I agree that this isn't enough to judge Einsteins morality, but it is interesting the tendency to want our heroes to be noble people. James Thurber wrote a wonderful short story about this -- The Greatest Man in the World.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#54

Post by [deleted] »

chimeracoder wrote: post #26
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It's interesting how much we want our heroes to be pure and spotless -- unlike any other humans we encounter.

> Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It shows that people are complicated and multifaceted. While we have a tendency to either laud or vilify figures (with nothing in between), in reality, historical figures can be both "good" and "bad" in different aspects of their lives... just like the rest of us. My favorite example of…

[deleted]

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#55

Post by dredmorbius »

hgnb wrote: post #49
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It's interesting how much we want our heroes to be pure and spotless -- unlike any other humans we encounter.

As a sole breadwinner,married to a woman who belittles me in front of our children, who, despite having full-time domestic help, grudgingly provides me with meals, who swings between extreme emotional neediness and rejection for weeks at a time and who occasionally physically attacks me in rages (she was diagnosed with a psychological disorder, but treatment is blocked by her family), I wish I could produce a list li…

From someone who's been through part of that (though without the kids), if you can possibly find an out, do.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#56

Post by zoba »

Differently from most other comments, I didn't see this as Einstein being a jerk. I more feel compassion for him since, to me, this list is like an admission of his solitude.

It must be quite lonely being so unique as Einstein. Most people have a hard enough time finding someone who they can relate to. When you're as publicly distinguished as he was I imagine finding someone to relate to must've felt entirely hopeless. Particularly since she was a bright woman, and 'on paper' should've been a good match and now it wasn't working out.

Einstein's second marriage was with his cousin which could be seen as more evidence of his desire to be able to relate to someone. Having family history probably helped them feel close, and he probably gave up on someone being able to relate to his intellectual pursuits by that time.

Unfortunately I don't have any hard evidence to point to support my ideas. I have been thinking of this since Steve Jobs died and have been wondering how such unique people like him, Einstein, and others dealt with not being able to feel true connection with another human being.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#57

Post by prawn »

sethbannon wrote: post #48

The entire site is, unfortunately for productivity, a treasure trove of interesting historical lists. For instance: http://www.listsofnote.com/2012/04/simple-rules-for-life-in-...

From a different site, but relationship oriented: Charles Darwin's list covering the pros and cons of marriage:

http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2012/08/14/darwin-lis...

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#58

Post by ricardobeat »

zoba wrote: post #56

Differently from most other comments, I didn't see this as Einstein being a jerk. I more feel compassion for him since, to me, this list is like an admission of his solitude. It must be quite lonely being so unique as Einstein. Most people have a hard enough time finding someone who they can relate to. When you're as publicly distinguished as he was I imagine finding someone to relate to must've felt entirely hopeles…

Drifting off-topic, but according to written history SJ did have strong relationships with his wife, children and friends.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#59

Post by philwelch »

tadfisher wrote: post #22
philwelch wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Einstein didn't directly kill anyone, but he did sign a letter to President Roosevelt urging him to fund research into nuclear weapons.

I think this is a rational thing to do -- after all, he was fearful of what would happen should the Germans have completed their nuclear program first.

Sure, but there's a big moral weight on using your fame and influence to get your government to built atomic bombs. Though this was before the advent of strategic bombing, so I'm not sure how obvious it was to Einstein exactly how such a weapon would ever be used.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#60

Post by noonespecial »

aufreak3 wrote: post #44
chimeracoder wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It shows that people are complicated and multifaceted. While we have a tendency to either laud or vilify figures (with nothing in between), in reality, historical figures can be both "good" and "bad" in different aspects of their lives... just like the rest of us. My favorite example of…

It is more complicated I think even in the case of Einstein. The period of strained relationship mentioned coincides with the period during which he was building up General Relativity (which he published in 1916). Given the intensity of work that would've been needed for that (all that gorgeous new math and physical insights!) with wrong turns to avoid in every move, it is well conceivable that his marriage was place…

I like to think of it backwards; If I knew that I had a contribution to make to humanity as great as Einstein's, would I willingly sacrifice my relationship with my family to make it?
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