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The mysterious Hy3 LLM is topping OpenRouter Model Rankings by a large margin

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Re: The mysterious Hy3 LLM is topping OpenRouter Model Rankings by a large margin

#61

Post by estearum »

minraws wrote: post #53
bandrami wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right but Tencent is a massive half-state-controlled holding company so that's not really helpful.

OpenAI & Anthropic are deeply in bed with US govt, and they need US govt approval before model releases, and all US Companies under various acts need to share data with the govt. I mean sure there are investors and a little more open-ness, but with the example of Mythos we don't even know if public will get access to the "good" stuff because it's too dangerous. If your only opinion on trusting these companies more th…

The difference is "the various acts" in the US are things that are largely very hard to do, extremely limited in scope, and companies who dispute the government's propriety can (and do) go to court to fight it.

Sure "China bad, US good" is naive, but certainly not more naive than suggesting that companies and individuals have similar rights and protections as each other.

> and they need US govt approval before model releases

This is just not true and it would be a gigantic legal battle to make it true against the model companies' wishes, which is indicative of your entire misunderstanding here.

Re: The mysterious Hy3 LLM is topping OpenRouter Model Rankings by a large margin

#62

Post by estearum »

selcuka wrote: post #55
TZubiri wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Third parties that can be clients of the AI vendor...

If it's worthless to AI vendors, they won't include it in the training corpus, so third parties won't have access to it.

They're alluding to something more like espionage of just selling the interesting stuff you put in the text box.

Re: The mysterious Hy3 LLM is topping OpenRouter Model Rankings by a large margin

#63

Post by irthomasthomas »

nl wrote: post #59
minraws wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI & Anthropic are deeply in bed with US govt, and they need US govt approval before model releases, and all US Companies under various acts need to share data with the govt. I mean sure there are investors and a little more open-ness, but with the example of Mythos we don't even know if public will get access to the "good" stuff because it's too dangerous. If your only opinion on trusting these companies more th…

> and they need US govt approval before model releases This isn't the case (yet).

It is for models trained with 10^26 flops. Anthropic confirmed Mythos was less than this. You could estimate the upper bound on model size from this.

Re: The mysterious Hy3 LLM is topping OpenRouter Model Rankings by a large margin

#64

Post by estearum »

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #48
astrange wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scraping the internet isn't a copyright violation. Using it for LLM training is much more transformative than Google and Internet Archive, which are legal.

To be honest, this is the first time someone has spelt it out in a nicely succinct paragraph. And just like that, I totally agree with you

Except it ignores the entire premise of copyright which is to protect incentives to create original work, which Google does not destroy and which LLMs (very loudly and proudly) try to do.

There are several components of the Fair Use test, "transformation" is just one of them. The most important dimension is the effect on the market, i.e. the effect on incentives.

You probably shouldn't base your legal analysis on pithy internet comments regardless of how succinct or agreeable they are to you.

Re: The mysterious Hy3 LLM is topping OpenRouter Model Rankings by a large margin

#65

Post by ddalex »

what266262 wrote: post #17
ddalex wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what can it do ? it's just a big set of numbers, if you trust the host that's good enough

If you are ok with everything being fed into it being stored forever I guess it’s no problem. I don’t see how you trust them if you don’t know them.

where would it be stored ? it's just a big set of numbers.

Re: The mysterious Hy3 LLM is topping OpenRouter Model Rankings by a large margin

#66

Post by cwmoore »

simonw wrote: post #10

First model I've tried that gave me back HTML with a "Change Pelican Color" button: https://static.simonwillison.net/static/2026/hy3-preview-pel... (Transcript: https://gist.github.com/simonw/c2a0d8ecd3056a2681319eae8fc3f... )

But…and I’m sure I’m not alone here…that is a snowman, and what it is on is not a bicycle.

What do we think we are doing with this life?

Re: The mysterious Hy3 LLM is topping OpenRouter Model Rankings by a large margin

#67

Post by st3fan »

bandrami wrote: post #12

For the life of me I will never understand the thought process that leads you to say "we don't really know who developed this LLM but I'm going to feed all of my business's data to it"

How do you “feed data into a model” ? Use the correct terminology and concepts please. It is important.

Re: The mysterious Hy3 LLM is topping OpenRouter Model Rankings by a large margin

#68

Post by adrian_b »

estearum wrote: post #61
minraws wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI & Anthropic are deeply in bed with US govt, and they need US govt approval before model releases, and all US Companies under various acts need to share data with the govt. I mean sure there are investors and a little more open-ness, but with the example of Mythos we don't even know if public will get access to the "good" stuff because it's too dangerous. If your only opinion on trusting these companies more th…

The difference is "the various acts" in the US are things that are largely very hard to do, extremely limited in scope, and companies who dispute the government's propriety can (and do) go to court to fight it. Sure "China bad, US good" is naive, but certainly not more naive than suggesting that companies and individuals have similar rights and protections as each other. > and they need US govt approval before model…

There was recently some announcement from the US govt itself (after the Mythos announcement) that they were pondering about allowing model releases from now on only after approving them.

So it may not be strictly true for the moment, but it is certainly something that the current US govt can mandate at any time.

Re: The mysterious Hy3 LLM is topping OpenRouter Model Rankings by a large margin

#69

Post by throawayonthe »

bandrami wrote: post #51
WithinReason wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's from Tencent, says it in the article: https://hy.tencent.com/research/hy3

Right but Tencent is a massive half-state-controlled holding company so that's not really helpful.

but we know who they are? how is this relevant

Re: The mysterious Hy3 LLM is topping OpenRouter Model Rankings by a large margin

#70

Post by killingtime74 »

Aurornis wrote: post #4

> Two new models are now beating LLM darling Claude in terms of token usage and by more than 50%? Time for a reminder that OpenRouter leaderboards only show tokens sent through OpenRouter, which most Anthropic API users don’t use.

Are you next going to say YouTube rankings don't take into account videos that aren't on YouTube and Spotify rankings don't take into account songs that aren't on Spotify?
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