Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 91 posts

Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#61

Post by jmye »

kcplate wrote: post #55
happytoexplain wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not my experience at all - every time (possibly literally every single time ) I have heard a liberal say that we don't need guns to protect government tyranny, the argument is that you could not protect yourself from the government, not that you would not need to . That seems obvious to me, so I'm a little astonished at what you're saying.

This notion of an all powerful military and the futility of defense against tyranny assumes that every military person (if so ordered) would gladly take up arms against their own citizenry as well as every military weapon system would be utilized against the people. What makes the 2nd a deterrent against tyranny is the notion that if things degraded to that level, the military would be compromised by the factions as…

> every military person (if so ordered) would gladly take up arms against their own citizenry as well as every military weapon system would be utilized against the people.

Perhaps you should look up the literal thousands of occasions of that happening, before snarkily dismissing it as absurd.

Doesn’t require “every”, which is an equally ludicrous addition you’ve made solely so you pedantically dismiss any objections.

But I’m sure the students at Kent State, for instance, would’ve been happy to know how much the government feared them. Great comment.

Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#62

Post by pixxel »

qwerpy wrote: post #11
happytoexplain wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you explicitly assume something that confirms your bias? Why not just say that you suspect a trend? Individual anecdote, but I bought a pistol for defense in the US because of the (two way) threats I constantly read and hear in my real life , and I do not consume any social media. No Twitter, no Facebook. I don't read news outside HN, my local paper, and the occasional CS Monitor story. I rarely sit around…

In my social circle (mostly Asian tech employees in the PNW) there were many first-time gun purchases immediately after the social unrest in 2020. Hysterical social media posts about "the riots are going to come to the suburbs" factored into it. The fears ended up being completely overblown. Now there are different groups of people who are predicting violence and feeling the need to do something about it. Too early t…

[dead]

Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#63

Post by seanmcdirmid »

kcplate wrote: post #31
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is more like if you have to worry about masked goons breaking into your house and trying to kidnap you or your family members then maybe you can't trust the government either.

Wait, what? I thought the main leftward argument against the necessity of the second amendment was that we can now trust our government to not overstep its authority and people protecting themselves against tyranny was no longer needed?

Who said the masked goons were military, or even ICE? Plenty of people running around in masks these days pretending to be ICE since ICE officers themselves won’t identify themselves or provide evidence that they are legit. They could just be thugs taking advantage of a very unprofessional arm of the federal government to justify a no-warrant home invasion.

We all know that guns, if ever used that way, will be citizen on citizen, not citizen vs the military. Both sides will think they are right, one or both sides will start with violence, the other side will be forced to respond in kind. The 2nd amendment has always been about Americans killing each other ever since the Supreme Court nullified the first clause of the amendment (which was meant to establish a Swiss-like militia). All it will take for the military to shoot a few students in cities Trump sent them to under the pretext of “preserving law and order” and the whole country is going to blow up. Heck, this is probably Trump’s plan to avoid the midterms.

Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#64

Post by esseph »

kcplate wrote: post #57
esseph wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "mainstream left" isn't real, it's a manufactured facet. Look at the number of historically communist or socialist countries with an AK-47/74/AKM on their flag.

How often did those countries allow their citizens keep their private firearms after the revolution?

If you rush forward to "after" you conveniently ignore the armed uprising "before".

Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#65

Post by 1659447091 »

I don't see much difference with this than when gun buying spikes after publicized mass shootings[0].

Gun sales also spike when new gun control laws are proposed. People are afraid (however unfounded) that their right to protect themselves and their family will be taken away. It use to be one of the biggest issues to scare people into voting republican (at least in Texas), the boogyman threat that "they" are coming for your guns and taking your right to protect yourself always came up just before important elections.

When the government's tagline as "cruelty is the point" and people find themselves on the wrong side of that it's gonna scare a few of them, and scared people buy guns -- "identity" and sides stop mattering.

[0] https://law.stanford.edu/press/gun-sales-us-spike-mass-shoot...

Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#66

Post by Timon3 »

tharne wrote: post #27
testing22321 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never in my life heard or read anyone, of any social standing, political affiliation, education or station of life discuss the abolition of police entirely. Is this like “they’re eating dogs!”?

> I have never in my life heard or read anyone, of any social standing, political affiliation, education or station of life discuss the abolition of police entirely. It was quite literally a slogan and rallying cry.

> It was quite literally a slogan and rallying cry.

It quite literally wasn't. "Defund" is a different word from "abolish" and has a different meaning. Are you not aware of that difference?

Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#67

Post by Jensson »

lukev wrote: post #17
tharne wrote: post #12

This makes sense. If one of your political platforms is to weaken and reduce the police force, then buying a gun is a very logical and practical thing to do.

Quite the opposite. The increased fear is that there will be bad actors (brownshirts, racists, klansmen, etc) that the police are not making an effort to restrain, or even with whom the police are are allied. Your average liberal/progressive is still probably less afraid (relative to the median) about random or property crime.

> Your average liberal/progressive is still probably less afraid (relative to the median) about random or property crime.

But random crime is much more likely to affect you than brownshirts or klansmen, so that seems irrational.

Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#68

Post by Jensson »

jmye wrote: post #61
kcplate wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This notion of an all powerful military and the futility of defense against tyranny assumes that every military person (if so ordered) would gladly take up arms against their own citizenry as well as every military weapon system would be utilized against the people. What makes the 2nd a deterrent against tyranny is the notion that if things degraded to that level, the military would be compromised by the factions as…

> every military person (if so ordered) would gladly take up arms against their own citizenry as well as every military weapon system would be utilized against the people. Perhaps you should look up the literal thousands of occasions of that happening, before snarkily dismissing it as absurd. Doesn’t require “every”, which is an equally ludicrous addition you’ve made solely so you pedantically dismiss any objections.…

Did you even read his post, he addressed that. Adding the armed citizens to the good side of the military is a significant power factor, if 10 million armed American civilians joins one side of a military internal dispute that will likely tip the scales.

Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#69

Post by Jensson »

Timon3 wrote: post #66
tharne wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have never in my life heard or read anyone, of any social standing, political affiliation, education or station of life discuss the abolition of police entirely. It was quite literally a slogan and rallying cry.

> It was quite literally a slogan and rallying cry. It quite literally wasn't. "Defund" is a different word from "abolish" and has a different meaning. Are you not aware of that difference?

Defund can mean both, many who chanted that clarified that they meant abolish. If you wanted people to not misunderstand then use a better word that is clear, since many who were on the pro "defund the police" meant abolish the police.

It is your own fault for using a bad slogan.

Re: More liberals, people of color and LGBTQ say they're buying guns out of fear

#70

Post by Timon3 »

Jensson wrote: post #69
Timon3 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was quite literally a slogan and rallying cry. It quite literally wasn't. "Defund" is a different word from "abolish" and has a different meaning. Are you not aware of that difference?

Defund can mean both, many who chanted that clarified that they meant abolish. If you wanted people to not misunderstand then use a better word that is clear, since many who were on the pro "defund the police" meant abolish the police. It is your own fault for using a bad slogan.

I did not choose the slogan, so you'll have to bring up your complaint with someone else :)

Do you have a proposal for an equally short slogan that cannot be misunderstood, especially by the right-wing media machine? I don't believe that such a slogan exists, as pretty much every sentence can be willfully misunderstood.

Post reply on HN