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How refrigeration changed our food

nytimes.com

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Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#61

Post by bluGill »

theodric wrote: post #46
mytailorisrich wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the diversity lost is the one caused by seasonality. Fruits and vegetables are highly seasonal, some meat and fish are, too. From reading various articles, apparently there really was greater diversity in vegetables, too. Nowadays people eat tomatoes, salad, onions, perhaps carots, and that's about it but there are many, many more that can be locally grown and that have almost disappeared from many people's d…

> swedes, turnips, cabbage, beetroots, leeks, rhubarb, types of squash, etc. Perhaps this is a U.S. issue. Every single one of these is available at my local Lidl supermarket (~a marginally upscale Aldi for those outside Europe) for much of the year , not to mention other more starkly seasonal things that filter in like peaches, salsify, runner beans, cherimoya (a tropical fruit), and so on. Across Europe I've had no…

Those are all available in any US supermarket well. The quantities on the shelf suggest they don't sell well, just enough to be worth having.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#62

Post by AStonesThrow »

yccs27 wrote: post #24
userbinator wrote: post #6

The home refrigerator is barely a century old When the article was written, it turned 110: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOMELRE I somewhat follow the vintage refrigeration community (owning a mid-30s Frigidaire myself) and still believe this is the only one of them known to be in existence today: https://www.coolingpost.com/features/ashrae-displays-first-e...

Home refrigeration is quite a bit older than electric refrigerators though. Iceboxes, kept cool by chunks of ice, were also called refrigerators and started being produced for home use in the 1840s.

Interestingly, my Mom's parents owned both an icebox and a quite modern electric refrigerator (1980s).

The icebox was kept in a carpeted room and it was used for dry storage. We never put ice in it. And it was definitely called "the icebox". But also, Grandma referred to the refrigerator as "the icebox" as well, and we always knew what she meant, because she'd typically say "put that milk in the icebox" or whatever to refrigerate the stuff.

Grandma had the best kitchen with the most fascinating appliances and gadgets. She had a flour sifter, an eggbeater or two, an actual breadbox (have you ever heard the question, "is it bigger than a breadbox?"). Our other grandparents were the first ones on the block to purchase a microwave oven. They hoisted it on top of the refrigerator and we could barely reach into it! My cousin said not to look into the microwave while it was cooking because it'd cook our eyeballs!

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#63

Post by ska »

xaldir wrote: post #34
tetris11 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it regain the flavour in the same way chocolate does when brought back to room temp, or does it lose flavour permanently?

Unfortunately no. The cold degrades some molecules involved in the flavour of the fruit.

But also yes. There may be some loss as you describe , but they’ll taste better brought back till room temperature than straight from the fridge .

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#65

Post by snarf21 »

omnee wrote: post #50

I can't emphasize this strongly enough. Recently, I had the pleasure of eating at a fine dining restaurant that grows a number of vegetables and herbs, and they presented an amuse bouche with a number of raw vegetables and herbs for us to taste. Their flavours were so elevated compared to the usual counterparts that I get from supermarkets, that I questioned whether any artificial addititives were used - obviously no…

Very true but how many people would pay the extra cost for vegetables outside the agricultural industrial complex? Most people want cheap and their fruits and vegetables year round, even if they are out of season. There is a major taste difference just between canned vegetables vs frozen.

My biggest annoyance is ordering a BLT in August and getting a green artificially ripened tomato even though ripe and flavorful ones can be found everywhere. You would think that CSAs would be a lot more popular and successful then they are but the reason (imo) is that most people really don't want to cook and even if they do, they don't want to do that every day so the CSA shares end up overwhelming them with fresh supplies that get given away or thrown out instead.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#66

Post by arp242 »

globular-toast wrote: post #18
theodric wrote: post #12

> we have lost “diversity and deliciousness" I sincerely doubt that the chilled stock in a local Irish supermarket makes my food options LESS diverse than they were a century ago. Grapes, blueberries, strawberries everywhere at any time of year, frozen fish from halfway around the planet, frozen pizzas, even ice cream for God's sake. Perhaps the cucumbers are worse, but I can always get them, and don't have to suffer…

The fridge door one came up some time ago on HN with actual data to back it up from "smart" fridges. Some people with kids said it was opened well over 100 times a day which shocked me. If TV/film/YouTube is anything to go by the habit of leaving the door open for extended periods is common too. That one really grinds my gears. I just can't understand a brain that doesn't tell you to minimise the amount of time the d…

A few years ago I had a housemate who would fill up the kettle all the way to the brim, would wait for it to boil and then she'd make a single cup of tea and let the rest go cold. Every single time. This unreasonably angered me.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#67

Post by goda90 »

londons_explore wrote: post #57
throwup238 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving to the US from Europe the quality of the produce was one of my biggest culture shocks. There was tons more availability especially out of season and it was cheaper but the fruit and vegetables here are so bland. Even the so called heirloom varieties are devoid of the flavor I’m used to. It’s gotten better over the years as consumer awareness has grown but now there’s the trend of making fruit increasingly swee…

Turns out you can measure the sweetness of an orange using an infrared light and camera. Then you can sort all the oranges by sweetness, and sell the sweet ones to one place and the pretty ones to another. Where the consumer only sees the looks in the shop, why send that country the nice tasting ones?

This sounds like a business opportunity. Handheld produce analyzers you bring to the store/farmer's market/etc.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#69

Post by vondur »

throwup238 wrote: post #55
omnee wrote: post #50

I can't emphasize this strongly enough. Recently, I had the pleasure of eating at a fine dining restaurant that grows a number of vegetables and herbs, and they presented an amuse bouche with a number of raw vegetables and herbs for us to taste. Their flavours were so elevated compared to the usual counterparts that I get from supermarkets, that I questioned whether any artificial addititives were used - obviously no…

Moving to the US from Europe the quality of the produce was one of my biggest culture shocks. There was tons more availability especially out of season and it was cheaper but the fruit and vegetables here are so bland. Even the so called heirloom varieties are devoid of the flavor I’m used to. It’s gotten better over the years as consumer awareness has grown but now there’s the trend of making fruit increasingly swee…

Out of season stuff is usually imported from Mexico or South America. I'm guessing the long distance transport conditions may change the taste of the produce?

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#70

Post by crabbone »

omnee wrote: post #50

I can't emphasize this strongly enough. Recently, I had the pleasure of eating at a fine dining restaurant that grows a number of vegetables and herbs, and they presented an amuse bouche with a number of raw vegetables and herbs for us to taste. Their flavours were so elevated compared to the usual counterparts that I get from supermarkets, that I questioned whether any artificial addititives were used - obviously no…

Our neighbor told this story about her mom. They are both French, but the daughter lives in the Netherlands for about a decade. The mom lives in France.

The mom came to visit her daughter during COVID and while eating something bought from the local supermarket, she noticed that the food has a very weak taste if any at all. COVID was said to impact one's sense of taste or smell. So, upon returning to France, she went to take a test and... she didn't have COVID. In fact was completely healthy :)

I went to France last summer. And... truth be told, I don't taste the difference between Dutch vegetables and French vegetables. To me they are both fine. The bread on the other hand is on a completely different level.

Anyways. I don't really know what may be causing these perceived differences in taste. But, I have a theory that it's a learned thing. Maybe our sensors adapt to a particular food and then a very small change overall can affect them in a major way?

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