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How refrigeration changed our food

nytimes.com

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Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#11

Post by makeitdouble »

nottorp wrote: post #4

Hmm isn't frozen food - even veggies - very close in content to fresh food? The real problem being not how the veggies are stored on their way to us, but how they're grown industrially?

If it's sent shipped cross-continent(s) it might be.

The point of fresh to me is to have it come from closer sources, even if it's in a worse shape, and be consumed basically in a day or two.

For anyone caring enough, getting access to local(ish) fresh food can be a pretty good indicator of a nice place to live, and it's usually worth the tradeoffs.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#12

Post by theodric »

> we have lost “diversity and deliciousness"

I sincerely doubt that the chilled stock in a local Irish supermarket makes my food options LESS diverse than they were a century ago. Grapes, blueberries, strawberries everywhere at any time of year, frozen fish from halfway around the planet, frozen pizzas, even ice cream for God's sake. Perhaps the cucumbers are worse, but I can always get them, and don't have to suffer the Hungry Gap in winter on nothing but potatoes, nettles, cabbage, pickles, and grain.

> American households open the fridge door an average of 107 times a day

This also beggars belief.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#13

Post by MichaelRo »

magicalhippo wrote: post #10
nottorp wrote: post #4

Hmm isn't frozen food - even veggies - very close in content to fresh food? The real problem being not how the veggies are stored on their way to us, but how they're grown industrially?

A friend started growing vegetables, and I got some as a gift at the end of the season. Just regular stuff like potatoes, carrots, celery root, parsnip and such. Now when I got them I was very busy, so they sat in a cool and dark place for a couple of weeks before I had time to use them. First thing I did was make a simple vegetable soup using only the vegetables I got from her, and it completely blew me away with th…

Yeah well, my parents have a garden of some 1000 square meters (a quarter acre) and lemme tell ya, there's a lot of stuff you can grow on that area. Obviously as a kid I couldn't escape being sent to attend the garden and saying I wasn't a fan of that is an understatement. Unless you do it as a hobby it's not a pleasant activity.

In fact nowadays I use it to form a mental image on the enthusiasm that today's kids have for reading (and unfortunately mine is no exception). I read a ton as a kid and still read now but my kid wouldn't touch it with a barge pole unless forced to. Never saw him pick up a book on his own volition, that is.

But I imagine it's the same situation as me with tending the garden. Never, not once, did I go to my father and say "dad, gimme the hoe coze I wanna start hoeing the weeds between the tomatoes".

Bottom line, I'd take supermarket vegetables anytime to growing myself. It's just not for me :)

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#14

Post by _joel »

userbinator wrote: post #6

The home refrigerator is barely a century old When the article was written, it turned 110: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOMELRE I somewhat follow the vintage refrigeration community (owning a mid-30s Frigidaire myself) and still believe this is the only one of them known to be in existence today: https://www.coolingpost.com/features/ashrae-displays-first-e...

That's a pretty cool hobby...

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#15

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

magicalhippo wrote: post #10
nottorp wrote: post #4

Hmm isn't frozen food - even veggies - very close in content to fresh food? The real problem being not how the veggies are stored on their way to us, but how they're grown industrially?

A friend started growing vegetables, and I got some as a gift at the end of the season. Just regular stuff like potatoes, carrots, celery root, parsnip and such. Now when I got them I was very busy, so they sat in a cool and dark place for a couple of weeks before I had time to use them. First thing I did was make a simple vegetable soup using only the vegetables I got from her, and it completely blew me away with th…

Yep. Even something simple like bay leaves. I have some from a community garden. Dropped in a couple as normal and you can immediately taste something different compared to store bought leaves.

Too bad local farming is not scalable.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#16

Post by ValveFan6969 »

nottorp wrote: post #4

Hmm isn't frozen food - even veggies - very close in content to fresh food? The real problem being not how the veggies are stored on their way to us, but how they're grown industrially?

Exactly... the real problem is how they're grown.

Frozen vegetables are less nutrient rich compared to fresh vegetables, because they lose nutrients while being frozen. And to be honest, frozen vegetables are frozen in the first place because those vegetables would have gone to waste otherwise.

So not only is their original state already compromised, they're then even more so when they're frozen.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#17

Post by chabska »

chii wrote: post #9
reedf1 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes exactly - and more broadly pretty much all food consumed globally is automatically selected by tolerance of storage + packaging + shipping. Many varietals and whole specimens have been lost to the annals of history because they cannot make it to a Walmart in North America from Mato Grosso in a scalable (and profitable) way. Bananas, for example, are practically a miracle fruit for scalable production and distribu…

And thus, this monoculture became susceptible to a single fungal plague that is killing the plantation! And a replacement species is not available.

> And a replacement species is not available

There are many varieties of bananas still grown in SE Asia, the original home of the banana. If somehow Cavendish is wiped out totally, it's not too difficult to pick another cultivar, breed resiliensy to it, and restart the whole banana industry.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#18

Post by globular-toast »

theodric wrote: post #12

> we have lost “diversity and deliciousness" I sincerely doubt that the chilled stock in a local Irish supermarket makes my food options LESS diverse than they were a century ago. Grapes, blueberries, strawberries everywhere at any time of year, frozen fish from halfway around the planet, frozen pizzas, even ice cream for God's sake. Perhaps the cucumbers are worse, but I can always get them, and don't have to suffer…

The fridge door one came up some time ago on HN with actual data to back it up from "smart" fridges. Some people with kids said it was opened well over 100 times a day which shocked me.

If TV/film/YouTube is anything to go by the habit of leaving the door open for extended periods is common too. That one really grinds my gears. I just can't understand a brain that doesn't tell you to minimise the amount of time the door is open. It's one of those things that makes me realise how fundamentally different people can be.

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#19

Post by kmarc »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #15
magicalhippo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend started growing vegetables, and I got some as a gift at the end of the season. Just regular stuff like potatoes, carrots, celery root, parsnip and such. Now when I got them I was very busy, so they sat in a cool and dark place for a couple of weeks before I had time to use them. First thing I did was make a simple vegetable soup using only the vegetables I got from her, and it completely blew me away with th…

Yep. Even something simple like bay leaves. I have some from a community garden. Dropped in a couple as normal and you can immediately taste something different compared to store bought leaves. Too bad local farming is not scalable.

There are things where you don't need scaling, maybe.

Around me there are a lot of those community gardens. It's encouraged by the city, and you can rent a piece of land for yourself.

https://www.lebendige-traditionen.ch/tradition/en/home/tradi...

(with that said, I grew up on a "farm", and as a child had to do a lot of gardening. I understand your enthusiasm about the flavors, but oh heck no, I'll eat the tasteless food for now and happy to not having to deal with all the work in the gardens :) )

Re: How refrigeration changed our food

#20

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

kmarc wrote: post #19
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Even something simple like bay leaves. I have some from a community garden. Dropped in a couple as normal and you can immediately taste something different compared to store bought leaves. Too bad local farming is not scalable.

There are things where you don't need scaling, maybe. Around me there are a lot of those community gardens. It's encouraged by the city, and you can rent a piece of land for yourself. https://www.lebendige-traditionen.ch/tradition/en/home/tradi... (with that said, I grew up on a "farm", and as a child had to do a lot of gardening. I understand your enthusiasm about the flavors, but oh heck no, I'll eat the tasteless…

There are a few community gardens around me too. But how many members does that feed and entertain? Hundreds?

Farming for quality is a luxury activity.

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